You're kiddin', right.

The clown's a small state shrub for cryin' out loud. He only knows 50 people. He trusts his gut because he knows what Vermonters want and what Vermonters need.

He doesn't care if they're competent. Look at helluva job hofie for cryin' out loud.

As long as they're loyal doogies, they're qualified.

All that's left is for him to try to put his cleaning lady and/or his dog on the Supreme Court and spend the next two years talkin' tough, doin' nothin' and finishin' Vermont off in style like his boy shrub is tryin' to do.

If the Legislature doesn't do what he tells them to do, as long as he can keep the obstructionist gops in the house together he's gonna veto everything they send him just as he always has.

The only question is whether he can continue to get away with it for another two years.

Can you seriously say that he's consistently attempted to negotiate in good faith with the Legislature?

Do you give a damn one way or the other?
 

Actually, Terri, it's Doris Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals".

It's about Lincoln. He didn't write it.

A pager, eh? Is he expecting a call from 1983?
 

Yup, you shure do hav ta wonda.

Douglas is exactly what Vermonters deserve, and maybe they will wake up in two years and realize the mistake they have made... or not. He is off to the same ol' same ol' and nobody is going to to effect his partisan way as Guv... because he could care less about what people who think, think.
 

Circle of Minions
I think minion is more accurate then circle of friends and certainly the Gov.keeps himself free of rivals .
 

And Howierd Dean didn't use a circle of friends in his administration? I recall one particular disaster of transfering his legal counsel, Janet Ancel, to Tax Commissioner and she very quickly screwd that job up. Now she wants to be the leader of House Democrats...perhaps their checks will be months late.
 

Let's face it - idiots like jw and company (hopefully shrinking) would only be happy if Douglas appointed a bunch of pointy-headed leftist nitwits to his administration - and that isn't going to happen!

Live with it!
 

To respond to GPVT, I would use the words "sycophant", "toadie" and/or "patsy" to describe the group of opportunists who inhabit Mr. Douglas' world. He does not want experience, he wants people who have no spines, who will rubber-stamp all of his decrees without critical discussion or scrutiny. He needs to go and I can not for the life of me understand why anyone voted for him.
 

WORKING people voted for him to rein in the leftist idiots in Montpelier before their jobs are gone as well. Douglas is like the little Dutch boy with his finger in the dike. If you didn't have the Shumlins, Kochs, Kitzmillers, Symingtons, Lipperts, ad nauseum then you wouldn't need Douglas! I have posed the following question several times on this blog, and of course never got an answer: What should Douglas do to attract more industry to the state? Please use details and not just some "green industry" answer.
 

Nice try, bubbakis.

Working people voted the Shumlins, Kochs, Kitzmillers, Lipperts, Campbells and Kleins into the Legislature to stop the likes of bubbakis from doin' to Vermont what his boy shrub has done to the Country.

If Vermonters wanted him to have a gop-slime rubber-stamp Legislature, the lunatic-fringe likes of Walt Freed would still be Speaker of the House.

He's not. We don't. You scum vote/ take back vermunt trash are just dyin' off in droves.

Gee, that's a shame.

Always a pleasure.
 

Once again, I rest my case!
 

bubba ....

"Let's face it - idiots like jw and company (hopefully shrinking)...

Hey, I'd be happy if doogie just appointed somebody who knew what the hell they were doin' for a change instead of hacks like helluva job hofie, but, like his boy, shrub, it's more important that they be "loyal doogies" than they be competent.

Sure thing, bubbakis. The take back vermunt trash, lunatic-fringe likes of you are back in control of the Legislature and Congress.

That's why greg park is Congressman Park, richie rich is Senator Tarrantula, nitwit nancy sheltra is Speaker of the House and with young blood like Bill Doyle, the gops are poised to rule the 1990s.

Nice try. No sale.

Always a pleasure.
 

30 years living in a bubble doesn't grant you a lot of opportunities to expand your very limited universe.
 

bubba said...

"Once again, I rest my case!"

In other words, you're gonna plead insanity again.

Yeah, that's probably your best bet, bubbakis. Hopefully, ya can get the help ya need before doogie slashes the mental health budget, cuts you loons loose and puts ya on the streets or on his staff.

Always a pleasure.
 

"What should Douglas do to attract more industry to the state?"

Jim's the one that's been promising jobs.

Are you telling us that he does not have a plan at all??
 

Terri said: "You do have to wonder about Gov. Douglas' penchant for staying within the same circle of friends."

Why?

In a year with an overwhelming Democratic tide from the Obama effect, and with a struggling economy, Douglas and his "friends" took 53 percent of the vote in one of the most Democratic-leaning states in the nation.

What would the motivation be for replacing people whom he trusts and whom have performed well with "rivals" whose loyalties are suspect or who haven't proven themselves?

James said: "Douglas is exactly what Vermonters deserve, and maybe they will wake up in two years and realize the mistake they have made... or not. He is off to the same ol' same ol' and nobody is going to to effect his partisan way as Guv... because he could care less about what people who think, think."

Ah, the "voters made a mistake" argument. Somehow his message of fiscal restraint and growing the economy and jobs instead of the size and cost of government fooled them. They thought they were getting a tax-and-spend candidate like the other two in the race.

And of course, he's the hyper-partisan. I guess that explains Symington and Shumlin's letter inviting him to be bi-partisan by joining with them in raising taxes after he campaigned on not doing that; Jeb Spaulding's call, two weeks after the election, to raise the gas tax; and John Campbell's introduction of a liberal wedge issue that nobody campaigned on, gay marriage, in that same time frame. Nope, no partisanship on the Democratic side.

Could that explain why Douglas can't find "rivals" to invite into his cabinet/inner circle? That most of the moderate Democrats have been driven from the party or marginalized by the more extreme elements?
 

Once again, Indy, if the voters weren't fooled about the doogie/dubie debacle, then they weren't fooled about the Legislature they elected to keep an eye on him, either.

In fact, they increased the Dem Majority in the House to keep him from vetoing everything they send him and cutting state employees and services to the bone just so he can add some more overpaid loyal "doogie", incompetent hacks to his pr staff.

Ya can't claim one without acknowledgin' the other, Indy.

The Vermont economy is a helluva lot worse after six years of doogie/dubie debacle incompetence than the one he inherited from Howard Dean and there's just no gettin' around it.

Granted, much of that's do to shrub/gop-slime incompetence and brain-dead policies, but Doogie supports shrub and those brain-dead policies so he doesn't even have that excuse.

Jim equals joblessness, Indy. In two more years he'll have ya homeless, too.
 

I seem to recall hearing this same line of reasoning from Eric Davis or Gerry Nelson on the radio recently. That voters choose liberal Democrats in their home districts because they know and like them, but choose a moderate Republican or Democratic governor as a check on those liberal tendencies.

As a moderate independent, that's fine with me. I find Douglas to be indistinguishable from Dean on most important policy issues, and I never had much of a problem with Dean or voting for him.

Divided government with a competent executive is apparently good enough for a majority of Vermonters. They appear to be satisfied with modest progress on issues rather than the sweeping, radical change Democrats and Progressives run (and lose statewide) on.

Like I said, I'm curious about the notion of Douglas "reaching across the aisle" or "going outside his circle of friends" to fill posts in his administration. Do you or anyone else have some names to suggest?
 

Independent Vermonter..

"I seem to recall hearing this same line of reasoning from Eric Davis or Gerry Nelson on the radio recently. That voters choose liberal Democrats in their home districts because they know and like them, but choose a moderate Republican or Democratic governor as a check on those liberal tendencies."

Well, it may or may not be true that you're recalling it as they said it, Indy, but the voters know the gops running in their districts, too, and they continue to reject them in ever increasing numbers to keep a moderate to liberal check on doogie's wingnut tendencies as the recent returns clearly demonstrate.

Then again, I remember you telling me with great enthusiasm after TM Day not to discount Vermont's Independent Streak and the probability of them going big for McCain based on him beating shrub in the 2000 Vermont Primary.

How'd that theory work out for McCain a couple of weeks ago, Indy?

Again, if you're gonna claim one, then you've got to acknowledge the other.

Hey, doogie prevailed against a weak field in a three-way race and he only had to spend twice as much as both his opponents combined to do it.

In a two person race, Doogie could have been beaten.

Especially, if the Freeps folks and the rest of the sclm don't sit on the mileage story for 2-3 weeks while telling us how everyone loves doogie when we clearly don't.

Nevertheless, doogie prevailed. There's just no gettin' around that fact.

As for the Legislature, nice try, Indy. Vermonters aren't just voting Dems in so doogie can protect us from their "liberal tendencies" and have something to veto.

They know the legislative margins. They know how close those veto votes were this past biennium.

If they were worried about Doogie vetoes bein' overridden, they could easily vote in a few more gops to prevent that from happening.

Remember, the obstructionist gops in the House had to read the riot act to the fella from Mt Holly to keep him in line and they got bailed out by that pillsbury putz in Windham County on CFR or doogie would have lost that one. At least.

Evidently, the majority of Vermonters want the Legislature to protect us from him.

There's no gettin' around that fact, either.

Doogie beat a weak field in a three-way race as Vermont and the Country continues to get more blue by the second and red state rubbish is consigned to the gop-slime dustbin of history with reaganomics where it belongs.

Doogie's the exception, Indy. Obama and increasingly large Dem Majorities in Congress and state legislatures from coast to coast are the rule. Get used to it.

"As a moderate independent, that's fine with me. I find Douglas to be indistinguishable from Dean on most important policy issues, and I never had much of a problem with Dean or voting for him."

If it comforts you to think of yourself that way, Indy, knock yourself out.

Nevertheless, the reality of your continued insistence on painting any Dem who disagrees with Doogie as an extremist says otherwise.

"Divided government with a competent executive is apparently good enough for a majority of Vermonters."

Well, you're half right, Indy. We've certainly got the divided government thing down.

Now, if we could only come up with a competent executive we could put your theory to the test.

Vermont gets worse by the day under doogie, Indy. He's every bit the incompetent, clueless hack that shrub is and his insistence on surrounding himself with the incompetent-trash likes of helluva job hofie and boy blunderville only serves to reinforce the point.

After blunderville's tenure at AOT,
our roads and bridges are in only slightly better shape than poor Brooke Bennett.

Evidently, the Pavilion "thinking" is that with fewer people having jobs to go to, there will be less wear and tear on Vermont's roads and bridges and, like shrub, they can buy time and talk tough for another year or two while doing nothing and letting Vermont continue to go to hell while they blame it on the Dems even though they'll try to veto everything in sight.

But, hey, he's got a new spokesman with a beeper.

You guys can pretend it's 1983, Reagan's in the White House, Dick Snelling never heard of high cholesterol and it's morning in Montpelier despite all evidence to the contrary.

"Modest progress on issues", eh, Indy?

Well, that's one way to describe six years of Vermont decline under doogie/dubie incompetence and empty promises.

Actually, that's pretty good spin. You should call doogie. He can always use another spin doctor. He pays really well, your position can never be cut, they're always hirin' loyal "doogies" and competence and experience are never an issue.

What's not to like. Give him a buzz.

As long as you've got young bucks like Bill Doyle and Vermont gops start living to be 150 and turning at 160 percent to vote, you'll be lucky if they let ya retire.
 

Jim promised jobs.

He failed.
 

Jim would've provided jobs if not for the policies of Madam Symington abd company,
 

Anonymous said...

"Jim would've provided jobs if not for the policies of Madam Symington abd company."

"Madam Symington abd company", eh, little factose-intolerant fella?

Once again, ya can't even spell the psychotic slop ya can't substantiate.

I hate to keep confusin' your ignorant anonymous ass with the facts, little fella, but doogie vetoed everything he didn't like.

If he didn't veto it, he didn't have a problem with it.

Just which part of that's how our system of government works is givin' you trouble, little fella.

Nevertheless, the Vermont we find ourselves in today after six years of doogie's gop-slime incompetence is in far worse shape than the one he inherited.

Reality. You should visit some time. Just get yourself a passport and call and make a reservation.

Get yourself a case and a clue or take your delusional dreck on over to the VT Tiger's fractured fascist fairy tale theme park.

Always a pleasure.
 

Vermonters should probably question a gov who has no real ties to anyone outside the small circle Ms. Hallenback refers to. Not really opening a lot of new doors for Vermont is it? A bunker mentality. Status quo, so we go.
 

we need a Governor who is willing to accept responsibility for his actions -- not blame others for his failures.
 

JWCOOP10 said: " I remember you telling me with great enthusiasm after TM Day not to discount Vermont's Independent Streak and the probability of them going big for McCain based on him beating shrub in the 2000 Vermont Primary."

JW, your memory is obviously better than mine. And since we know you can always back up your assertions with proof, please feel free to dig out that quote and share it with us.

Thanks.
 

That's one of jw's favorite little "games" - months after particular posts have been archived he suddenly comes up with unprovable distortions of them! I once mentioned the FACT that only our entry into WWII ended the depression, and months later hear from jw that I stated that FDR STARTED the war to end it! Or maybe his many distortions about his pal Hoffer, anti-semitism, racism, etc. He can never prove anything himself, refuses to offer facts on any of his wild claims (perhaps because they don't exist)and merely thrives on distortions and outright lies. His usual reply: "You got bupkis"!
 

Ah, my mistake, Indy. It was barreboy who said it on the McCain's visit thread. I get you two confused from time to time.

barreboy said...

"coop: McCain was outpolling Gore back in early 2000. Don't forget Vermonters' independent streak.

10:09 AM, February 15, 2008

Nevertheless, you do have some beauties on ACT250 and assorted crackpot election predictions.

Always a pleasure.
 

"Nice try, bubbakis."

Still working on banning this guy, eh? It seems to be turning into quite a job.
 

And is it your clueless-cretin contention that "nice try, bubbakis" is obscene and abusive now, too, sport.

In other words, what you're sayin', little nameless-nitwit fella, is that you've got no case, no clue, no reason and ya can't compete so your only shot is to get me banned.

Gee, thanks for clearin' that up.

Always a pleasure.
 

JWCoop10 said: "Ah, my mistake, Indy. It was barreboy who said it on the McCain's visit thread. I get you two confused from time to time.

barreboy said...

"coop: McCain was outpolling Gore back in early 2000. Don't forget Vermonters' independent streak.

10:09 AM, February 15, 2008

Nevertheless, you do have some beauties on ACT250 and assorted crackpot election predictions."

Amazing. You can't even admit a mistake without stretching to add an insult.

Do tell, Mr. Coop. Regale us all with your insightful analysis of my misguided, misinformed comments on Act 250 and my "crackpot election predictions." Please remember to cite the quotes you're attributing to me this time, and to back up your opinions with your usual ironclad facts. While your credibility is unquestioned by me, others apparently have their doubts.
 

"And is it your clueless-cretin contention that 'nice try, bubbakis' is obscene and abusive now, too, sport."

That horse has left the barn, champ. You had your several hundred chances.
 

No one really cares.
 

Nevertheless...

"Amazing. You can't even admit a mistake without stretching to add an insult."

Do tell, Mr. Coop. Regale us all with your insightful analysis of my misguided, misinformed comments on Act 250 and my "crackpot election predictions." Please remember to cite the quotes you're attributing to me this time, and to back up your opinions with your usual ironclad facts. While your credibility is unquestioned by me, others apparently have their doubts."

Really? Anybody with a name, indy?

I'm shocked.

In the mean time, there's these ACT 250 pearls or wisdom of yours.

Unless, of course, it was the other Independent Vermonter who posted 'em.

I'll get back to you on the political prognostications. I've gotta change threads.

------------------------------------

IndependentVter said...

As one poster already noted, it is a supply problem, and Act 250 is a big part of it. In the name of fighting "sprawl" Act 250 is used to stifle housing production and drive up the cost of what gets produced.
Since there appears to be significant segment of the population who are very happy not to see new housing developed, whether for aesthetic or other reasons, Act 250 is the perfect tool.
It is kind of funny how vigorously some anti-growth advocates defend every comma in Act 250, yet bemoan its "inflexibility" when it hits a project/cause they advocate for. See Will Raap's op-ed in Sunday's Burlington Free Press for a splendid example of this hypocrisy.

11:22 PM, February 25, 2008

IndependentVter said...

Anonymous said "Case-Schiller reports today that national housing prices fell 8.9% during the October to December 2007 period. Maybe homes will be more affordable soon, and we don't need to go rushing out to change our laws and build more houses."
Sorry, but I think that's the national market not the Vermont market. There still aren't enough houses being built that working Vermonters can afford, and without increasing the supply I doubt the prices are going to fall here anytime soon.
Look at the listings in Montpelier. Cheapest listing for a single family, stick built home is $186,500, and its only one of three listings under $200K. Well, four if you count the one at $199,900.
I don't see a lot of jobs in the paper paying anywhere near the wages to make that mortgage payment.

IndependentVter said...
Anonymous said: "Solving housing issues will not be done by the current Democratic leadership becasue they are not coalition builders."
No, solving housing issues will not be done by the current Democratic leadership because they are too beholden to the Vermont Natural Resources Council, the Conservation Law Foundation, the Vermont Land Trust, the Forum on Sprawl or Smart Growth Vermont or whatever they call themselves, etc.
When these groups say jump, Sen. Shumlin and Rep. Symington say, "How high?" That's why they can't say yes to even modest reforms of Act 250 to stimulate housing, but can make any kind of accomodation for composting operations for the Intervale.

12:14 AM, February 28, 2008
 

Here ya go, Indy - The sequel.

IndependentVter said...

Hmmm ... a credibility contest between Peter Shumlin and Jim Douglas. I don't think it's much of a contest.
Political insiders can nitpick at Douglas, but I think the average Vermonter perceives him as an honest man, whatever his faults.
I'd be interested to see poll numbers on the issue. Even more interested to see a poll of journalists and/or lawmakers who have had dealings with Shumlin.


6:25 PM, February 22, 2008




IndependentVter said...

Okay, before this thread devolved into an insult contest, the question at hand was the credibility of Jim Douglas and Peter Shumlin.
Someone then suggested that Mike Smith and the entire Douglas Administration lacked trustworthiness.
Evidence, please?

8:30 PM, February 24, 2008


In other words, Indy, your thoughts on credibility ain't evidence of anything more than your meshuggah musings on the subject while attempting to pass yourself off as the "informed" spokesman of the "Average Vermonter" without portfolio, before pulling this little number:


IndependentVter said...

"Nobody has to respond directly to anybody. Just ignore posts that don't have anything to do with the subject at hand. And when you find the thread has run its course in terms of productive dialogue, stop posting to it.
That's just an opinion; you can take it or leave it. Frankly, I think blogs are more fun when there's a little snarkiness (preferably polite) but when wit descends into contemptuous abuse, no matter which side is dishing it, it gets pretty tired."
That's the first and last accurate, truthful thing you've muttered in my time here, indy. That is just your opinion and everyone is free to take it or leave it. It's not evidence of anything but an understanding on your part that your opinion is there for anyone to take or leave as they see fit.

"Hmmm ... a credibility contest between Peter Shumlin and Jim Douglas. I don't think it's much of a contest.
Political insiders can nitpick at Douglas, but I think the average Vermonter perceives him as an honest man, whatever his faults.
I'd be interested to see poll numbers on the issue. Even more interested to see a poll of journalists and/or lawmakers who have had dealings with Shumlin."

That is not evidence of anything but your opinion, Indy. No one is disputing your right to your opinion. It just doesn't make it evidence of anything.

Whether you or I would or would not like to see a popularity poll of journalists and lawmakers on their feelings about Shumlin is irrelevant.

Now, when I say that your statement is not evidence, that is a true and accurate statement. Your absence of evidence is my proof. Do ya see how that works now?

Now, how's that? Is this sufficient or are ya gonna make me change threads again?
 

"In a two person race, Doogie could have been beaten."

Not by 21% Symington and not by 21% Pollina. So who else was in the Guve's race, little fella?
 

Anonymous said...

"And is it your clueless-cretin contention that 'nice try, bubbakis' is obscene and abusive now, too, sport."

""That horse has left the barn, champ. You had your several hundred chances.""

And just when did that became your call to make, little nameless-nitwit fella?

In other words, what you're sayin' is that you're still dumb, you're still scum and ya still got bupkis.

I never doubted ya for a second, champ. I always knew ya had it in ya. Too bad that's the extent of your anonymous act, shmendrik.

Always a pleasure.
 

"And just when did that became your call to make, little nameless-nitwit fella?

In other words, what you're sayin' is that you're still dumb, you're still scum and ya still got bupkis."

It's not mine, but it has been made by those whose call it is to make. And you're just amply demonstrated their justification for making that call.
 

"Get yourself a case and a clue or take your delusional dreck on over to the VT Tiger's fractured fascist fairy tale theme park."

It would be real interesting to compare IQs between the average participant on that blog and the average participant here.
 

I've worked with Steve Wark. He is a great guy and smart as hell. He will make an excellent spokesperson. That said, Terri, sorry you didn't get the job. But I had hoped you wouldn't wear your disappointment on your sleeve so...

Also, I think the "team of rivals" shtick is wearing a little thin. I mean, can anyone seriously imagine Gaye Symington as the Governor's spokesperson? She has trouble articulating her own thoughts, let alone someone else's, fer crissakes.
 

Seriously, Cooper, you compared Vermont's roads to Brooke Bennett.

"...our roads and bridges are in only slightly better shape than poor Brooke Bennett." 4:53 PM, November 22, 2008

That is disgusting. You are a disgusting human being. That you walk the same earth that holds Brooke's body makes my skin crawl. I hope you feel good knowing that this Thanksgiving Brooke is being compared to a pothole instead of being with her family.

Yes, I may be dumb, scum, etc, but I know well that I'll never see you in the small circle of hell devoted to the truly heartless. Enjoy your stay.
 

Well, Iggster. As long as Warkie's got a beeper and nameless nitwits like you for references, that's good enough for me.

Always a pleasure.
 

Can you imagine a useless tool like jw attempting some sort of logical argument on a more intelligent blog like Vt Tiger? Actually he probably has and was immediately "shown the door"!