vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

11.14.2008

Bernie on the bandwagon

Sen. Bernie Sanders joined in the call this afternoon to boot Sen. Joe Lieberman from positions of power, following Sen. Patrick Leahy's comments on the matter.

Lieberman should not chair the Senate Homeland Security Committee or his two subcommittees under Environment and Public Works and Armed Services, Sanders said.

“To reward Senator Lieberman with a major committee chairmanship would be a
slap in the face of millions of Americans who worked tirelessly for Barack Obama
and who want to see real change in our country,” Sanders said.

“Appointing someone to a major post who led the opposition to everything we
are fighting for is not ‘change we can believe in.’ I very much hope that
Senator Lieberman stays in the Democratic caucus and is successful in regaining
the confidence of those whom he has disappointed. This is not a time,
however, in which he should be rewarded with a major committee
chairmanship.”

Are they equally willing to question any consideration of Hillary Clinton for secretary of state? Didn't she vote for the war?

- Terri Hallenbeck

posted by vt.Buzz | 5:16 PM |

Comments:

It isn't about the war; it's about tearing down the Democratic candidate.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:12 PM, November 14, 2008

Comparing Lieberman to Clinton is an absolute joke.

Yes, Clinton did vote for the war and she has admitted that it was a mistake. You must also realize that most Americans and politicians were mislead into supporting the war by the Bush Admin.

Hillary has admitted her mistake. Has lieberman?

Hillary immediatley backed Obama after the primaries. Has Lieberman expressed his support for Obama at all?

The fact that you would even make that comparisom shows that your whole blog is laughable.

# Posted by:

Unknown | 7:13 PM, November 14, 2008

Naturally Socialist Sanders would support Socialist Obama... would there really be any doubt to this. So much for the "Independence" of Bernie Sanders

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:54 PM, November 14, 2008

So what Bernie has sold his soul to the Democracts anyway. Bernie should tell everyone he is a Democract and get over the charade of being Independent. Independents of Vermont are now rejecting Sanders.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:08 PM, November 14, 2008

isn't it about the good of the country regarding your party or who you supported for the election? Is he capable of leading a committee fairly and without the prejudice of party affiliation?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:20 PM, November 14, 2008

Anonymous said...

"Naturally Socialist Sanders would support Socialist Obama... would there really be any doubt to this. So much for the "Independence" of Bernie Sanders"

Gee, I hate to keep confusin' ya with the facts, little fella, but Lieberman's an Independent, too.

Like Bernie, he just caucuses with the Dems. He has no seniority built up within the Democratic Caucus. They're doin' him the favor.

Unlike Bernie, he was a Dem Incumbent who lost to a primary challenger.

Unlike Lieberman, Bernie never stabbed anyone in the back or pretended to be anything that he wasn't.

He ran and won as an Independent with gop-slime support. He also promised not to trash Obama during the campaign. He not only went back on his word on that score, he did it as the gop-slime convention.

Lieberman made his choice. The only thing the Dems owe him is a slow, painful death and a shallow, unmarked grave.

Then there's that whole like Obama, Bernie was right about the Iraq War from day one thing, too.

Nice try, nitwit. No sale.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:01 PM, November 14, 2008

Anonymous said...

"So what Bernie has sold his soul to the Democracts anyway. Bernie should tell everyone he is a Democract and get over the charade of being Independent. Independents of Vermont are now rejecting Sanders."

Sure, that must be why they keep reelecting him, little fella.

Nothin' says "I hate your guts. See ya in hell." like voting to send the guy back to DC again and again.

Then again, you're so independent, little fella, you can't even spell "Democract".

Nice try. Get yourself a case, a clue, a handle and we'll talk, schmuck.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:10 PM, November 14, 2008

Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "Transactions":

"Gov Douglas' administration reeks of cronyism as never before seen in Vermont State Gov't."

"If you look in the dictionary under cronyism, you find the relationship between Governor Dean and Bill Sorrell."

Sorrell just got reelected, schmuck. Handily.

Is it really your ignorant anonymous ass's clueless-cretin contention that he couldn't have won it without Howard Dean pullin' the strings in DC, little fella?

Dean was a bit preoccupied with larger matters and Sorrell had no problems handlin' Karen Kiran on his own, douche bag.

That's weaker than Obama is Hitler because they were both democratically elected and they both had white mothers, schmuck.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:19 PM, November 14, 2008

This, sadly is the state of Vermont Political Culture - Has anyone reminded Bernie that, not being a Democrat, it actually isn't any of his damn business?

Ahh well - I am reminded of a town meeting deal starring Bernie some weeks ago, regarding pay and workers rights associated with employment at Burlington defense contractor. When someone made mention of the fact that this firm's California employees were actually making less than Vermont employees were, Bernie responded__

"Well, they don't have the commute that we do here in Vermont!"

Of course, California is notorious for some of the longest commutes and most expensive driving costs in the nation. Did Bernie no that? - Actually I doubt he cared.

It's all babble anyway!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:28 AM, November 15, 2008

I'm a different "anonymous", but I post as "Timbol" on the Free Press articles. I made the post above this one.

To the point - I voted for McCain, but am really starting to like Obama's style. 'Got a funny feeling that Obama has little tolerance for phony-baloney crapola, and to the amazement of many in the Green mountain state, he is going to cut Dean, Leahy, and Sanders pretty much out of the pie. I don't think he is going to be picking Dean for HHS, Leahy isn't going to be going to the Supreme Court, Attorney General, or anything, which is probably what he wants, and I doubt Obama is going to change the rules so Bernie can be a Democrat whenever it suits him.

When Pat Leahy retires, he is going to be going back to his tree farm in Middlesex, and a few years down the road, he will have as much name recognition as George Aiken does today.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:42 AM, November 15, 2008

Maybe I should qualify this - Bernie isn't a Democrat NOW, but don't be surprised if he has a James Jeffords style "enlightenment" - You know, that scam Jeffords pulled when he thought becoming an independent would make him a swing vote in a deadlocked congress? (Think of St. Paul being immersed in a divine light)

I hope Bernie doesn't write a book about it!!

Douglas seems OK, but for the most part, if fascism were the prevailing political culture in Vermont, most of these phonys would be prancing around in jack-boots saying, "You know, that holocaust was a horrible thing, but the trains -did- run on time"!

Note - I decided to give a link to my Myspace site with my real name on it, if anyone wants to send me hate mail.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:56 AM, November 15, 2008

Right on! "Jeezum" Jim waited until he was elected and had gladly taken all of that Republican money before he "suddenly" had his epiphany, although I do believe he was used by the unethical dimocrats who knew he was in the early stages of alheimers. Don't you just love it when these whiny dims claim to have been "misled" by Bush into the war when they supposedly had the SAME intelligence info that Bush had? There is no limit to their venality.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:29 AM, November 15, 2008

Leahy and Sanders are partisan drones with no desire for collaborative government. They in fact also represent everything that needs to change for the federal gov't to become an effective tool.

They are to the left what the left has painted the hardcore Right to be.... unbending, closed-minded ideologs. Perhaps there isn't that much of a difference between Leahy/Sanders and oh let's say Dick Cheney when you set aside the partisan rhetoric.

I thought Obama was the great uniter. Maybe I heard that wrong.

Captain America

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:40 AM, November 15, 2008

O.K., isn't it time to start discussing the specifics of the issues like how to get out of Iraq and when, what difficulties and consequences we will encounter. Just how far are we going to carry "counter-insurgency" in Afghanistan and what are it's realistic prospects?

What are the substantial "changes' in the Obama administration going to be and how much different are its "Homeland Security" priorities from those espoused by Joe Lieberman? If Joe has been in favor of the occupation in Iraq, how is that substantial different from the position of the new Vice President, who was out in front of Bush on the matter and refused to hear testimony against the plan as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committtee?

I mean, the fuzz on top of a frappochino is all very nice but you still want the real buzz in the body of the drink.

# Posted by:

johnshaplin | 7:40 AM, November 15, 2008

We no doubt will hear the specifics from Obama's point man in Vermont, jw. As soon as he recovers from his Friday night 15-round bout with the Richards.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:52 AM, November 15, 2008

When Lieberman ran for office as a Democrat he lost the election so He ran as an independant & won the vote by the people. Why all the fuss, the people of his state voted him in as an independant. Now what I feel is crookedness is back when Jim Jeffords ran as a Republican, was voted in office as a Republican & then changed his affiliation to an independant. Lieberman did it the right way by changing his affiliation before the election & allowing the people to vote for him. Leave Lieberman alone he is for the people.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:00 AM, November 15, 2008

Jim Jeffords also had the support of many who were not Republicans. Remember this is Vermont; many people here vote for the individual based upon his/her merits--not strictly party line.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:17 AM, November 15, 2008

Jeffords had a conscience, hence his rejection of Bush and company. He was admired around the country for his ethical stance against people who demonstrated little or no ethics.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:20 AM, November 15, 2008

"Obama the great uniter..." He isn't even in office yet so how about reserving judgment until he is.

Also, if you would inform yourself on the issue, he is for allowing Lieberman to continue as before.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:26 AM, November 15, 2008

Note to John:

Bush is still in power until next year. As Obama said: we only have one president at a time.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:29 AM, November 15, 2008

"Is it really your ignorant anonymous ass's clueless-cretin contention that he couldn't have won it without Howard Dean pullin' the strings in DC, little fella?"

No, ignorant schmuck, it's my contention that Bill Sorrell would still be a practicing attorney in Burlington and nobody except a few people in that city would know who he is if Dean hadn't made him his henchman when Dean fell into the Governorship in 1991 when Snelling died. Dean tried to force his hatchetman onto the Supreme Court and the Democratically-controlled Legislature would have none of it. So Dean moved the then-Attorney General onto the Supreme Court and placed his hatchetman into the AG's seat. Sorrell got the AG spot without having to run for it.

That's cronyism.

Get a clue, schmuck.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:52 AM, November 15, 2008

Care to take a look at who Douglas has appointed to run agencies? Not anyone with experience in the fields most cases but lots of experience as friends of Jim.

That's cronyism.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:17 AM, November 15, 2008

Captain America,

I think you have it pretty much on the money - there really -isn't- a fundamental difference between the state's left-wing ideologues, and Dick Cheney.

All at really is - Huey Long populism couched in the stale rhetoric of the liberal movement of the late 20th century. It's about winning votes from aging baby-boomers who never found their way off of the commune

(Insert strains of CSNY here: "Remember Ooh-Hi-Ooh! Remember Ooh-Hi-Ooh!")

--And naive college students who believe Jerry Garcia was Moses, and Trey Anastasio was the second coming of Christ.

It is, for the most part, completely bogus, and it has been for decades. It is simply how one wins elections in Vermont, and has nothing to do with any kind of policy or ethic. People seem to have ignored the fact that Alexander Solzhenitsyn -rejected- constitutional democracy, and did it as a resident of the state.

The next question is, now that Phish has disbanded, Jerry Garcia is fading in to memory in the minds of the young set, what is Pat Leahy going to do?? Is the world really ready for "Def Pat" prancing around in parachute pants??

"Yo Homies! 'Diss is Def Pat rappin' you about the Constitution"

The truly sad part is, in the end, because this liberal political rhetoric doesn't really have anything to do with any sort of policy or ethic, nothing gets accomplished! - Not liberal goals - Not conservative goals - It all ends up in the same pile as the effort to ban Land Mines. Vermont gets left with a state that has a tanking economy, a stagnant population base, and a record on policy and domestic human rights that is among the least distinguished in the nation. They haven't been able to meet federal requirements on their psychiatric hospital for years, most of the social service programs in Vermont have become grafted by opportunists to the point where they no longer function, and the states industrial base is slowly packing up and leaving.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:11 AM, November 15, 2008

Nice change of subject? How about a comparison between appointments of "friends of Jim" and how others have made appointments in the past? Read the newspapers over the last week or so for an accurate account of who practices cronyism.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:14 AM, November 15, 2008

"Crony" is what a sore loser always calls one appointed for any position by the candidate that beat theirs. You dims might want to look up who appointed judges such as Dooley and Davenport and see if they fit into the "crony" classification.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:53 AM, November 15, 2008

Believe you Repubs called Sorrell's appointment to attorney general 'cronyism". Believe he was a practicing lawyer and held other office before being appointed and re-elected many times. He was qualified for the position.

Take a look at the qualifications of Douglas's recent appointees--there's a marked difference.

If you don't like the comparison don't bring up 'cronyism". On that you lose every time.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:58 AM, November 15, 2008

As to appointing judges, take a look at the individuals Bush appointed to the Supreme Court. Where's the bi-partisanship there? Whose whining now about appointments at national level? the Losers.

Again you can't have it both ways. Your logic is circular.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:27 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous said...
"Is it really your ignorant anonymous ass's clueless-cretin contention that he couldn't have won it without Howard Dean pullin' the strings in DC, little fella?"

"No, ignorant schmuck, it's my contention that Bill Sorrell would still be a practicing attorney in Burlington and nobody except a few people in that city would know who he is if Dean hadn't made him his henchman when Dean fell into the Governorship in 1991 when Snelling died."

Nice try, little factually-challenged fella, but Dean didn't just "fall into the Governorship in 1991 when Snelling died because he had a lucky scratch-off ticket. He became Governor because - as the duly reelected Lieutenant Governor of the State of Vermont under the Vermont Constitution, upon the Death of a sitting Governor, the Lieutenant Governor succeeds him.

Under the Vermont Constitution, that is how we do things here. Feel free to check.

Then again, he also managed to win in his own right in '92, '94, '96, '98 and 2000, little sister.

Look it up. Learn something, little lunatic-fringe fella.

"Dean tried to force his hatchetman onto the Supreme Court and the Democratically-controlled Legislature would have none of it. So Dean moved the then-Attorney General onto the Supreme Court and placed his hatchetman into the AG's seat. Sorrell got the AG spot without having to run for it."

Yeah, and if he hadn't gone on to win in his own right in '98, '00, '02, '04, '06 and '08 in his own right, your sorry clueless-cretin keister might have a case, but he did, so ya don't.

Moreover, Dean wasn't even on the ballot after '00, little psychotic-slime fella.

That makes four times he's been reelected on his own which leaves your ignorant anonymous ass still dumb, still scum, and still bearing bounties of bupkis.

"That's cronyism."

No, but that's entertainment, little fella.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 1:34 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous

"Again you can't have it both ways. Your logic is circular."

Actually, it's circling the bowl.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 1:36 PM, November 15, 2008

Timbol said...

"Douglas seems OK, but for the most part, if fascism were the prevailing political culture in Vermont, most of these phonys would be prancing around in jack-boots saying, "You know, that holocaust was a horrible thing, but the trains -did- run on time"!"

And just when did the jimi douglas experience have the trains runnin' on time, timmy?

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 1:43 PM, November 15, 2008

bubba has left a new comment on the post "Bernie on the bandwagon":

"Crony" is what a sore loser always calls one appointed for any position by the candidate that beat theirs."

Ya mean like you and your clueless cretin comrades are doin' now, bubbakis?

"You dims might want to look up who appointed judges such as Dooley and Davenport and see if they fit into the "crony" classification."

Actually, they fall into the qualified classification.

Nice try, nitwit.

Gee, ya gonna pull the new gop-slime talking point about how you're not saying Obama is like Hitler, but they were both democratically elected and they both had white mothers, song and dance, now, bubbakis.

You're dumb, you're scum and ya got bupkis, bubbakis. Ya always do.

Look out the window, little fella. It's November. Ya best head for redder pastures and take it where the climate suits your sheet, schmuck.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 1:54 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous...

"When Lieberman ran for office as a Democrat he lost the election so He ran as an independant & won the vote by the people. Why all the fuss, the people of his state voted him in as an independant."

Gee, I hate to keep confusin' your ignorant anonymous ass with the facts, little fella, but they're not talkin' about kickin' him outta the Senate.

Lieberman may be scum, but he's not a convicted felon like Ted Stevens for cryin' out loud.

They're talkin' about strippin' an Independent who violated the terms of his agreement with the Dem Majority on multiple occasions of his Committee Chairmanship.

They're perfectly within their rights to do that. They're doin' him the favor.

As is your cluleless-cretin custom, the only thing your ignorant anonymous ass has been able to establish is that ya can't spell Independent or figure out how to use spellcheck.

I never doubted ya on that score for a second, little fella.

Jeffords didn't make an appearance at the Dem Convention in '04 like Lieberman did this summer.

Feel free to submit a bill for all the Dem Conventions Bernie has made an appearance and a prime time speech at, schmuck.

"Now what I feel is crookedness is back when Jim Jeffords ran as a Republican, was voted in office as a Republican & then changed his affiliation to an independant."

Again, I hate to keep confusin' ya with the facts, little fella, but Jeffords won reelection as a gop and left when shrub lied to him and cheney tried to lean on him.

Lieberman, lost his Dem Primary and won reelection as an independent when the gops refused to support their own candidate and threw their support behind Lieberman.

The Dems don't owe that meshuggah schmuck a damned thing.

He dug his own grave. Let him go fall in it.

"...Lieberman did it the right way by changing his affiliation before the election & allowing the people to vote for him."

Nice try, nitwit. Lieberman ran as an Independent because he lost his Dem Primary. Case closed, clueless.

"..Leave Lieberman alone he is for the people."

Fine. Let him caucus with the sig heil set and see what kinda deal they give him.

You schmucks want him. Fine. He's all yours.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 2:26 PM, November 15, 2008

JW,

Considering what Jim Douglas was left to work with, a state that had a part-time Governor for about a decade, I think he is doing rather well.

One of the curses of Vermont political culture, the "Dark side" of the windfall Vermont received from the Electoral College on it's acceptance in to the Union, is that one can be seated as a Senator or Representative for Vermont (Pop 608,000) on fewer votes than it takes to win Mayor of Milwaukee, Wisconsin (Pop 602,000), or Ward boss in a major metropolitan city like New York, or Los Angeles. (There are wards in NY, NY with more than 1 million people)

As a consequence, Vermont politics has a large contingent of players who have no actual interest in civics or government, and are primarily interested in using the state as a springboard for nation aspirations. Dean (like Sorrel) was one of these, who spent a good deal of his time checking his numbers, getting airtime, networking with out-of-state political movers and shakers, and grappling his way to the top of professional organizations like the National Governors Association.

This didn't leave him much time for the petty nuisances of governing the State of Vermont!

Jim Douglas, to his credit, does seem to be sincerely interested in acting as the state's chief executive. Much of what he has been doing is trying to clean up the mess Howard Dean left behind. My hunch is that a few years down the road, Vermont is going to reward Jim Douglas by sending him to the US Senate.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:33 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous said...

"Obama the great uniter..." He isn't even in office yet so how about reserving judgment until he is."

He just managed to unite the Country behind him in ridding the WH of incompetent gop slime, increasing the Dem Majorities in both Houses of Congress, restoring the prestige of the US in the eyes of the rest of the World and honor, dignity, integrity, intellect and competence to the White House.

Moreover, he did it running while Black the whole time, little fella.

"Also, if you would inform yourself on the issue, he is for allowing Lieberman to continue as before."

And if your ignorant anonymous ass would take the trouble to inform yourself, you'd know that - even if that is Obama's opinion on the matter - ultimately, that's a matter for the Democratic Majority of the US Senate to determine, douche bag.

Again, I hate to keep confusin' ya with the facts, little fella, but Lieberman is an Independent.

If he doesn't like the Dem's call, he's as free to begin caucusing with the gops as Bernie is to continue caucusing with the Dems.

Reality. Look into it.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 2:47 PM, November 15, 2008

Another important problem in Vermont, the demographics and economies of scale in Vermont -reward- political duplicity. Vermont voters want to be told they are socially conscious and enlightened, but in actuality are primarily interested in federal representatives who can bring money in to the state. In a sense it really isn't entirely the fault of people like Leahy and Sanders!

They are supposed to be beacons of ethics and constitutional courage, but actually, their REAL job is to bring in every dime of federal money they can get their mitts on to keep the state afloat.

A consequence is that, underneath the flowery humanitarian rhetoric, if Sacco and Vanzetti had been nabbed in Vermont, they would have been swinging on the end of a rope at sunrise for nothing more than a few pennies in Milk price supports.

It also makes Vermont about the last place on the planet you want t land if you are involved in any kind of real whistle-blower case involving the Federal Government. Unless someone like Leahy, Sanders, Dean, or Welch can identify a CLEAR and DIRECT political incentive for stepping in and assisting you, they won't hesitate to network with the agency you are up against, and sell you out for anything they think they can get - Leahy's office did this to me.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:54 PM, November 15, 2008

Timbol said...

JW, Considering what Jim Douglas was left to work with, a state that had a part-time Governor for about a decade, I think he is doing rather well.

Is that right, timmy. Is it your clueless-cretin contention that Vermont is in better shape now than it was before the doogie/dubie debacle started runnin' it into the ground.

Feel free to produce any and all evidence in support of that psychotic slop.

Gee, I'm shocked.

What's more, given the fact that he held office for less than 12 full years from 8/91 - 1/03, if it's your ignorant ass's assertion that Vermont was "a state that had a part-time for Governor for about a decade" because Dean was running for President or otherwise engaged during most, if not all of that 11-year period, the only thing you've managed to prove is that you don't think at all, little fella.

"One of the curses of Vermont political culture, the "Dark side" of the windfall Vermont received from the Electoral College on it's acceptance in to the Union, is that one can be seated as a Senator or Representative for Vermont (Pop 608,000) on fewer votes than it takes to win Mayor of Milwaukee, Wisconsin (Pop 602,000), or Ward boss in a major metropolitan city like New York, or Los Angeles. (There are wards in NY, NY with more than 1 million people)"

Well, timmy, if one considers the US Constitution to embody the very "Dark Side" of the windfall Vermont - along with the other 49 States of the Union gained when they joined the Union to be a mere curse of Vermont political culture", ya just may have a point there.

If not, you're not only ignorant trash who can't distinguish your ass from your elbow, you're utterly psychotic, to boot.

My money's on door number two.

On the other hand, you're definitely the most entertaining clueless cretins to stumble into this joint in a month or two. I'll give ya that much.

You may be dim, demented and delusional, but at least you ain't dull. That's a helluva lot more than I can say for your coalition of the clueless cretin comrades, little fella.

Welcome aboard.

"As a consequence, Vermont politics has a large contingent of players who have no actual interest in civics or government, and are primarily interested in using the state as a springboard for nation aspirations. Dean (like Sorrel) was one of these, who spent a good deal of his time checking his numbers, getting airtime, networking with out-of-state political movers and shakers, and grappling his way to the top of professional organizations like the National Governors Association."

Well, I hate to confuse ya with the facts, timmy, but your factually-challenged, delusional-dreck assertions ain't evidence, little fella. They're merely your factually-challenged, delusional-dreck assertions.

And is it your clueless contention that the Electoral College applies only to Vermont, little fella?

Don't the same rules apply to, oh, say, Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas, Delaware, and Alaska, little fella?

"This didn't leave him much time for the petty nuisances of governing the State of Vermont!"

Well, given the fact that doogie's been in Miami at the gop-slime governor's convention for the past few days and has either just returned or is soon to return to Vermont, if what you say is true, timmy, the best thing he can do for Vermont is catch the next plane to anywhere but Vermont, because his record shows he's been runnin' the State into the ground for six years now and is bound and determined to finish us off for good during the next two.

Clearly, based on his record and your clueless-cretin calculations, timmy, the less time doogie spends in Vermont, the better off we'll be.

Boy voyage, schmuck.

Of course, the people who voted for him and then some managed to go 2-1 for Obama and increased Dem Legislative Majorities in the Legislature, so that might just slow him down a bit and put a damper on his plans to destroy the State of Vermont.

Gee, that's a shame. Poor bastard.

"Jim Douglas, to his credit, does seem to be sincerely interested in acting as the state's chief executive. Much of what he has been doing is trying to clean up the mess Howard Dean left behind. My hunch is that a few years down the road, Vermont is going to reward Jim Douglas by sending him to the US Senate."

Feel free to produce any and all evidence in support of that psychotic slop, timmy, because the facts and doogie's record more than "seem" to indicate that you don't know which end is up, what day it is or what the hell you're talkin' about on any conceivable level, little factually-challenged, lunatic-fringe fella.

And while you're at it, I'm still waitin' for ya to show me just when the doogie/dubie debacle managed to get the trains to run on time.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 3:45 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous said...

"Leahy and Sanders are partisan drones with no desire for collaborative government. They in fact also represent everything that needs to change for the federal gov't to become an effective tool."

Well, crazy lady, since we just voted out most of the ineffective tools, you're gonna have to wait at least a couple of years, set out for redder pastures where the climate suits your sheet or both.

Just climb that roof, face south, spread those wings and fly, auntie amerika.

Godspeed, crazy lady. Godspeed.

"They are to the left what the left has painted the hardcore Right to be.... unbending, closed-minded ideologs. Perhaps there isn't that much of a difference between Leahy/Sanders and oh let's say Dick Cheney when you set aside the partisan rhetoric."

Perhaps not. By the way, it's spelled ideologues, idiot.

You're welcome.

"I thought Obama was the great uniter. Maybe I heard that wrong."

He just united the majority of American Voters to rid the White House of the foul stench of ignorant, illegitimate, incompetent trash, crazy lady.

In fact, Vermont went for him 2-1, auntie amerika. The scum vote is just dyin' off here in droves, crazy lady.

Bummer.

Fly away, little lunatic-fringe lady. Fly away.

I like this new Timbol alter ego of yours, auntie amerika. She seems nice in a pretentious, ignorant anonymous trash sorta way.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 4:01 PM, November 15, 2008

JW,

I am not the person posting as "Anonymous" - Although I did post as "Anonymous" once, it is the default mode for this blog, in fact, you can see exactly who I am, and a picture of me standing in front of the little rat-hole I lived in while a resident of Richmond Vermont for 12 years, as a reward for being the person who caught the US Navy running completely phony counter-terrorism operations on US citizens in 1992.

Now you know what your state's actual whistle-blower policy is, and why I would have posted a half dozen comments on he Adrienne Kinne news story of a week ago, warning her that if things started going sour, to get the hell out of this place fast - I didn't get out until it was too late.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:14 PM, November 15, 2008

You're out of here and yet you feel free to comment on things about which you know nothing: ie, current life and politics in Vermont. Makes a lot of sense.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:28 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous,

Read the last sentence of my prior post one more time.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:35 PM, November 15, 2008

JW,

Name calling is a last resort for people who cannot construct an effective argument, or defend their statements.

You might be somewhat more credible if you didn't try with every sentence to minimize, insult, and denigrate everyone you are pretending to debate.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:01 PM, November 15, 2008

Timbol...

JW, Name calling is a last resort for people who cannot construct an effective argument, or defend their statements."

In other words, you want me to pretend that you're a serious person advocating a legitimate point of view or expressing an opinion rooted in fact and evidence that reasonable people can disagree over when none of that is true and you're clearly just another nitwit who doesn't know what the hell you're talkin' about on any conceivable level.

That's just not gonna happen, timmy.

Make no mistake, you're not a serious person. I don't take you seriously.

You're just another pretentious putz telling me that doogie "seems to be sincere" and making ludicrous, lunatic-fringe "arguments" with no supporting evidence or basis in fact.

I'm not pretending to debate you, little fella. You're pretending to be a worthy debating partner for me by pathetically positing a load of delusional dreck that only appears to be a well-constructed, worthy "argument" to you.

I'm not gonna humor ya, little fella. I don't give a damn if you think doogie "seems" to sincerely care about the State of Vermont when the facts and his record support all evidence to the contrary.

The Vermont he inherited from Howard Dean was in far better shape than the one we find ourselves in today, little fella.

Granted, that's largely bush's fault, but doogie supports the incompetent schmuck and was still calling for the privatization of SS six weeks ago.

His record clearly demonstrates that he's an incompetent hack on a good day. Vermont's not having a good day.

Get yourself a case and a clue and a legitimate argument supported by the facts on I'll give ya the time of day. Keep spewin' this psychotic slop of yours and you're gonna keep gettin' what you're gettin'.

Capice?

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 5:39 PM, November 15, 2008

Timbol said...

"JW, I am not the person posting as "Anonymous" - Although I did post as "Anonymous" once, it is the default mode for this blog, in fact, you can see exactly who I am, and a picture of me standing in front of the little rat-hole I lived in while a resident of Richmond Vermont for 12 years, as a reward for being the person who caught the US Navy running completely phony counter-terrorism operations on US citizens in 1992."

If you say so, Timbol.

"Now you know what your state's actual whistle-blower policy is, and why I would have posted a half dozen comments on he Adrienne Kinne news story of a week ago, warning her that if things started going sour, to get the hell out of this place fast - I didn't get out until it was too late."

If you say so, Timbol.

So, now that you've told me that you no longer consider Vermont to be "your state", why should I take it as money in the bank when you say that doogie "seems" to be sincere?

You're gonna have to come up with somethin' a little more substantial than that for me to take what you say on faith like it's money in the bank.

Hey, if you got a raw deal as whistle-blower, ya didn't get it from me. I don't know that facts of your situation or how strong or weak your case is. That's between you and your lawyer.

But you getting a raw deal or havin' a personal axe to grind with Dean doesn't make doogie any more competent than he already isn't.

Your personal beefs with Dean are not my concern. You're just some guy on the internet I'd never heard of 24 hours ago talking in vague generalities about not liking Howard Dean.

Sorry, pal. Tell it to someone who's in a position to help you.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:20 PM, November 15, 2008

Timbol...

Maybe I should qualify this - Bernie isn't a Democrat NOW, but don't be surprised if he has a James Jeffords style "enlightenment" - You know, that scam Jeffords pulled when he thought becoming an independent would make him a swing vote in a deadlocked congress? (Think of St. Paul being immersed in a divine light)"

Nice try, timmy.

You can make all the bogus biblical references ya want, pal, but it's gonna take more than that to put some meat on the bones of your argument.

Your analogy is right up there with this fixed news - "Obama is Hitler because they both had white mothers. Think about it!" malarkey

Jeffords was as rock-solid an old-fashioned New England Yankee Gop for his entire life as anyone in his family. He didn't leave the gops. They left him with their Tennessee Taliban trash and 43rd reich rubbish.

At no time has Bernie been a member of the Democratic Party. He defeated them when he became Mayor of Burlington back in the early '80s. He never ran as a Dem during his eight terms in Congress and he didn't run as a Dem when he was elected to the Senate.

Get some facts, Timbol.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:44 PM, November 15, 2008

1-800-BPD-GIVE

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:44 PM, November 15, 2008

JW,

Than you for doing such a wonderful job of explaining what Vermont's liberal culture is really about, as a representative of the view from the left.

--How warm, enlightened, and caring it is!

--How open, objective, and literate it is!

--How courageous and profound it is!

A correction though - It is not that Vermont is no longer my state - It never WAS my state! I ended up here by accident while on the cusp of a breaking Navy scandal, and by the time I figured out what had happened, I had my bones picked so cleanly by the office of your Senior senator I couldn't GET out, I couldn't find a job out of state, I couldn't get any kind of residence out of state without a job, etc.

Of COURSE there are wonderful people living here, but there were also wonderful people living in Berlin Germany in 1938!

As a cultural and political entity it is a phony! - A rural New England state dominated by opportunists who's only real interests are in themselves, their pocketbooks, and proving they can compete with Boston Brahmin. A culture dominated by left-wingers who have spent 20 years turning Vermont in to an Appalachian backwater that survives by grafting corporate and federal dollars.

Half of the "kind and Caring" non-profits in the state are funding and employment scams, I know because when I hit the street I encountered many of the games in a context where little is done to conceal them.

If The Federal Government were to shut off the Refugee resettlement funds and grants, the "Kind and Caring" liberal intelligensia of this state would be loading most of the Africans on busses within a month. As it is now, there are numerous law suits in Vermont courts from refugees claiming they were denied state services in Vermont - It wasn't supposed to work that way, the Feds were supposed to be paying for everything! - The refugees were supposed to be cash-positive!

Next let's talk about mental health! With all of that lofty socially enlightened rhetoric, you would think Vermont Mental Health ethics would be on the national forefront - NOT!! Actually, the maintream mental health culture in Vermont is one that most of the rest of the nation discarded in the mid 20th century, it is about isolating, maintaining, and providing for miscreants born with defective human souls! It is the culture parodied in "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest"!

That is the problem they are having at Waterbury, and it isn't a problem that can be fixed by moving the patients to Fletcher-Allen! The problem is that Eugenics isn't really an embarrassment from the distant past - Eugenics is part of Vermont's modern culture! They don't understand what the Federal Mental Health investigators want them to do, because it doesn't make sense to them - You can't TREAT patients born with defective souls - You isolate them, give them a warm bed, three squares, and then find someone to pay for it.

Now - Go right ahead and imply that I am a "Whack Job", explain to all the readers here what culture on the left side of the aisle in Vermont is really about! Explain why no one in Russia, China, or in the international community gives a hoot about your state, and hasn't for years.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:36 PM, November 15, 2008

No one expects that Russia, China or anyone in the international community to give a hoot. We are a small state, one of fifty. Why would anyone expect that?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:04 PM, November 15, 2008

The most successful con man in Vermont is Bernie Sanders - Independent - yes, independent of anyone - he only serves himself.

Give up the myth and accept him for what he is - completely self serving.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:32 PM, November 15, 2008

Anonymous,

Legitimate question - As it turns out, and as bizarre as it sounds, there are a great many people in Vermont, very much like JW here, who believe that without Vermont, through representatives like Leahy and Sanders, to carefully and gently guide them towards a path of democracy and constitutional enlightenment, nations like Russia and China would never truly overcome their communist and totalitarian legacies.

They are the same people who believe that George Bush was genuinely concerned that the "Growling Grannies" were going to undermine his control of government, and that the Justice Department, through the FBI, had sent their people in to Vermont to harrass, and try and squelch the Vermont peace movement before they could enlighten the nation about the Iraq war.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:43 PM, November 15, 2008

JW does not represent anyone except himself.

If you read the blather that he posts, you are as big of an idiot as he is.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:12 PM, November 15, 2008

"As a cultural and political entity it is a phony! - A rural New England state dominated by opportunists who's only real interests are in themselves, their pocketbooks, and proving they can compete with Boston Brahmin. A culture dominated by left-wingers who have spent 20 years turning Vermont in to an Appalachian backwater that survives by grafting corporate and federal dollars."

Yep, that about sums it up. But you forgot to note one important point: the opportunists and left-wingers you rightly speak of are all transplants: Bernie, Welchie, Gaye, Anthony, Zuckerman, and the list goes on and on. They didn't move here because they care about Vermont or the people who were born and raised here and who work on farms and in gas stations and the few factories that are left. They moved here to create their own little trust-funded, "pro-environment" theme park, and damn anyone who gets in their way, including the natives.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:06 AM, November 16, 2008

A perfect example of the above can be seen in Sheffield and Sutton. Two poor towns that might add to their bases and do something for energy independence by letting wind companies erect a few wind towers on the mountains have been met with fierce opposition by a group calling themselves something like "Save Our Ridges". They are ALL flatlanders who have moved here from elsewhere and don't want anything to change. They will spend anything it takes to prevent these towers from being built. Yet all of them are liberal "environmentalists" like Walter Cronkite and the Kennedys - all talk about global warming, breaking the dependence on foreign oil, blah, blah - until it's in their OWN backyard! What a bunch of despicable phonies!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:01 AM, November 16, 2008

Anonymous said...

"The most successful con man in Vermont is Bernie Sanders -

Give up the myth and accept him for what he is - completely self serving."

Nice try, nitwit.

Give up the brain-dead bupkis and accept him for what he is.

The Junior Senator from the State of Vermont who was elected overwhelmingly.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 10:28 AM, November 16, 2008

Can anyone name anything of substance Bernie has EVER done for Vermont (except embarrass) in all of the years he has spent in Washington? We know that all Reps and Senators get allocated some money to pass around to the suckers at home while they babble about how they are "for the working man" and against "the rich". He ought to at least get some new lines and comb his hair when he appears on national TV.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:06 PM, November 16, 2008

Timbol said...

"JW,

Than you for doing such a wonderful job of explaining what Vermont's liberal culture is really about, as a representative of the view from the left."

You can "Than" me all ya want, timmy, but feel free to point out just where and when I claimed to be a representative of anyone but myself, little fella.

Take your time. Clearly, you're not goin' anywhere.

"..A correction though - It is not that Vermont is no longer my state - It never WAS my state! I ended up here by accident while on the cusp of a breaking Navy scandal, and by the time I figured out what had happened, I had my bones picked so cleanly by the office of your Senior senator I couldn't GET out, I couldn't find a job out of state, I couldn't get any kind of residence out of state without a job, etc."

And that's the fault of whom, me? The State of Vermont? Both?

You may be telling the truth about your situation. You may not.

Either way, just how is your personal situation related to "Bernie on the bandwagon" or anything even remotely related to this thread or any other topic of discussion?

If you're having troubles, you have my sympathies, but I didn't cause 'em and I'm in no position to affect them one way or the other.

If you're lookin' for a disclaimer along the lines of prices may vary or past performance is no indicator of future gain, you're gonna have to settle for the one ya just finished readin', pal.

I'm not sellin' ya anything. I'm not claimin' to be a doctor or a lawyer or pretending to play one on the internet.

Get yourself a Rabbi, a shrink and a lawyer or all of the above.

Tell your troubles to Jesus, Timbol. The Coop has gone ashore.

"Of COURSE there are wonderful people living here, but there were also wonderful people living in Berlin Germany in 1938!"

If you're gonna try and pull the Kristallnacht analogy on me here just because we commemorated the 70th Anniversary of that sorry chapter of history this past week and imply that your individual plight is akin to that of the Jews of Germany and Europe in 1938 because Vermont has mistreated you so badly with so little justification, you're not just barkin' up the wrong tree, you're outta your fookin' mind, schmuck. A point you make abundantly clear in your anecdotal extravaganza down meshuggah memory lane.

"Now - Go right ahead and imply that I am a "Whack Job",...."

You don't need any help from me on that score. You're doin' a bang up job of that on your own, timmy.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 3:19 PM, November 16, 2008

"Can anyone name anything of substance Bernie has EVER done for Vermont (except embarrass) in all of the years he has spent in Washington?"

No.

I think Welch has already brought more dollars to Vermont in his first term than Bernie did in 8 terms as U.S. Rep.

Why? Gee, could it be because as a Congressman Bernie was an abrasive, hot-headed, unlikable, uncompromising, holier-than-thou, grandstanding loudmouth?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:22 PM, November 16, 2008

Bernie does nothing for this state, but you can bet your bottom dollar he will support millions of dollars of your tax dollars to bail out the auto makers in Michigan, quid pro quo for all of the big bucks the unions give him. The incompetent management and greedy unions should not be rewarded with our money for failure. Let them reorganize under Chapter 11, renegotiate the plush union contracts, fire the bad management, and send the new ones to Japan to learn how to build cars and trucks.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:51 AM, November 17, 2008

Anonymous said...
"Can anyone name anything of substance Bernie has EVER done for Vermont (except embarrass) in all of the years he has spent in Washington?"

No.

I think....."

Sure, ya do.

Nice try, little nameless-nitwit fella.

Clearly, like your boy, bubbakis, you're wholly lacking in any and all capacity for rational thought.

Unfortunately, that defense doesn't get ya off the hook here.

Disappear.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 3:01 PM, November 17, 2008

Timbol

Hard to believe there's no way out if you want to leave; others manage.
And to blame Vermont's representative's for being blackballed as a whistleblower makes no sense. Blame it on the collusion of the Navy contractors involved. It's the contractors who do the blackballing.

I know people who were in a similar situation and sued those involved and won their case so did get some remuneration in spite of the job loss.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:38 PM, November 17, 2008

"Nice try, little nameless-nitwit fella."

That's what Bernie did? Odd response.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:41 PM, November 17, 2008

So JWCoop10 is spewing his usual abusive garbage and Terri has no problem with it.

Others trashing Coop apparently was a problem.

OK Free Press anyone care to explain why this is OK?

Shall we all start using Coop speak?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:35 AM, November 18, 2008

So much for Leahy and Sanders' influence in the Senate!
Lieberman kept his chairmanship.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:28 PM, November 18, 2008

Leahy is more interested in hob-nobbing with celebrities than in the work it takes to become a good Senator. Bernie is still sort of a joke, and between the two of them Vermont doesn't get much representation.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:12 PM, November 18, 2008

Here, here!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:02 PM, November 18, 2008

Bubba...you are right again! The VT contingent is a joke.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:04 PM, November 19, 2008