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Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen


6.12.2008

 

The heat is on

I don't know about you, but the price of heating oil had me thinking about the winter's bills this week even as the humid 90s had us sweating.



Lt. Gov. Brian Dubie announced some ideas yesterday. Gov. Jim Douglas is announcing more today, though a fair share of them are things that were happening already.



After our story on those items ran, a 70-year-old woman wrote to me today, saying that she and her disabled husband have weatherized their house, turned the heat down to 55 last winter and used an electric space heater. She doesn't know what moves they can make this year to cut further.



She suggests:

"I think that the weatherization program should be expanded to assist homeowners
to convert from oil heating systems to another source of heat, such as wood or
wood pellets. Because I am paying so much for food and fuel oil, I do not have
the funds to purchase a wood pellet stove. Tax credits to convert from oil will
not help seniors who do not owe income taxes."


She goes on to say:

"I have worked all my adult life and thought we were ready to retire with
dignity, but this is not something that I anticipated. It made me furious last
winter to be confined to one small room while speculators and big oil make
obscene profits. This winter we may have to consider a shelter. This is just not
right!"

What do you think the state should be doing? What do you think regular folks should be doing?

- Terri Hallenbeck

Comments:
And the republicans blocked a windfall tax on these obscene profits that the oil companies are making. This tax wouldn't hurt the oil companies multi-billion dollar profits or in any way be detrimental to big oil in this country. The revenue generated from this windfall tax could be used to help alleviate some of the costs associated with heating one's home. It sickens me that someone my grandparent's age has to be confined to one small room and sit in such cold temperatures. Most folks know that as we age, the circulatory system doesn't work as well as it did when we were younger. 55 degrees is a temperature I wouldn't feel too bad about leaving my dog in, but a 70 year old!? The generation used as an example in this article is one of the most important generations that have lived in and built this country. We as a society need to look out for our elders and make sure that they have what they need to live through their retirement with at least the basic necessities. They should not have to want for heat, food, shelter or their medications. At the very least, we should help them as a 'thank you.' Out of respect (a lost art these days) for our elders, we shouldn't have even have to think about helping them. It should be one of those things that everybody does almost automatically. Call your grandparents, parents or someone you know who is in that generation and ask if there is anything you can do to help them. Thank them and let them know you appreciate all of the sacrifices and hard work they have done all of their lives so that following generations have a safe and secure place to live. And remember that we will all get old and that one day we may need the help of the younger generations.
 
I sympathize with seniors, especially those on fixed or limited incomes. This is going to be an exceptionally hard winter when you have to choose between food and fuel. There are a number of seniors with too much pride to tell anyone.
I like the weatherization plan and think it should be expanded and I agree with the lady that it should include funding for conversions. Efficiency Vermont has the resources and they should prioritize who they assist, based on income and need. We must organize an outreach program so needy people will not be left out.
It will be difficult to drop oil prices immediately unless stubborn George Bush will agree to release about 1/3rd of the strategic oil reserve or 250 million barrels. This will immediately drop the price and force the speculators to lose billions. Supply & Demand
 
"I like the weatherization plan and think it should be expanded"

That's funny because Douglas vetoed a bill that would do just that.

I agree that GWB is stubborn and stupid. He obviously doesn't give a crap about average Americans.

The last thing we need is another 4 years of Bush.
 
I don't think Bush's name is on the ballot.
A lot of libs want to link McCain to Bush but there are a lot of differences.
Douglas didn't veto that energy bill because of the weatherization- it was all the other nonsense in the bill.
 
Douglas should talk far less during the summer to reduce the hot air output across Vermont. For the same reason, he should then talk more during the winter.
 
You need to work harder to keep track of all of the bills Douglas has vetoed. Try to keep up.

McCain votes with Bush 99% of the time. McCain supports 99% of Bush's policies.

McCain/Bush 2008.
 
If you want to compare candidates, try comparing Obama with Jimmy Carter, probably the worst President in history. Carter caused the line gas lines by capping prices- interest rates went to 18%-20%. He didn't know what to do about the Iran hostages, who were released the day after Reagan was elected. We did get Billy Beer during his term.
As for gas/oil prices, Obama said yesterday on TV that the high gas prices does not bother him- he is upset that they jumped so fast. If he is not bothered by the prices then you can be assured that relief is not in site- unless you vote McCain.
I think Douglas vetoed the right ones- he obviously had the majority of Montpelier on his side because the Symington/Shumlin couldn't gather support for an override.
 
Carter didn't get us into a worthless war in Iraq and drain our treasury doing it.

He didn't ignore the needs of storm victims in New Orleans and Mississippi.

So you can keep trying to run against Jimmy Carter. But Bush and McCain's policies are on the ballot in 2008.
 
NEK said: "he obviously had the majority of Montpelier on his side"

No fool ... the Dems had a majority of the votes. An over ride takes much, much more than a majority.

Get your facts straight.
 
Would someone (perhaps of_corse) explain just what a "windfall profit" or an "excess profit",for that matter, is?
 
^^ you find it here: www.google.com
 
Maybe it's time to stop subsidizing individual homes for those that cannot afford to heat them. Communal housing is the future, the way fuel costs are going. Stagflation will not be fun, but perhaps those of us earning a living can have our taxes cut enough that we aren't the next ones on public assistance.
 
The only solution is to stop using oil. The state should help people put up wind and solar at their homes and farms.
 
NEK said...

"..I think Douglas vetoed the right ones- he obviously had the majority of Montpelier on his side because the Symington/Shumlin couldn't gather support for an override."

So much nekwit nonsense, so little time.

Once again, little factually-challenged fella, if you knew your ignorant, ill-informed ass from your elbow, had so much as a nodding acquaintance with reality and knew what the hell you were talking about with respect to any subject on any conceivable level, you'd realize that the majority of Montpelier was not with Doogie the Dimmer or your ignorant coalition of the clueless ass and that if a simple majority was all that was required to override Doogie's vetoes, they'd all have been overridden. Alas, that is not the case in the Vermont Legislature any more than it is the case in DC. A 67 percent majority is needed.

So, once again, nekkie boy, you prove yourself to be dumb, to be scum and to have bupkis without a case or a clue because you simply don't know what the hell you're talking about with respect to any topic on every conceivable level.

And the list of topics you know nothing about and brain-dead bogus claims with no basis in fact or supporting evidence to substantiate them grows like the latest Bush Deficit and National Debt, little factually-challenged fella.

Don't go changin', schmuck. That's entertainment.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
NEK said...

"..A lot of libs want to link McCain to Bush but there are a lot of differences."

Such as?

That's what I thought.

"..Douglas didn't veto that energy bill because of the weatherization- it was all the other nonsense in the bill."

So, what you're saying is that he vetoed the bill.

Thanks for clearin' that up, nekkie boy.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
I don't want to Google an answer, I want you to tell me what it means.
 
Anonymous said...

"I don't want to Google an answer, I want you to tell me what it means."

There's laws against usury on the State and Federal Books, little nameless-nitwit fella.

There's consumer protection laws against price-gouging and war profiteering, little factually-challenged fella.

I want your ignorant, anonymous ass to show me where in the US and/or Vermont Constitutions it guarantees business the right to make a profit, little factually-challenged nameless nitwit fella.

Can ya do that?

That's what I thought.

Once again, the only thing you can ever manage to prove is that you're dumb, you're scum, ya got bupkis and ya don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Of course, those facts were never in dispute, schmuck.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
As I said JWcutandpastealwaysaschmuckfactuallychallengedCoop when Douglas vetoes a bill and the majority leaders can't come up with enough votes to override- we win-you lose-so get over it and move on. I know you need 2/3rd's majority and you didn't get it.
As for the question at hand- home heating costs- The Douglas Administration is being pro-active and setting up some good programs. He is being criticized by Symington and Pollina- too little too late but neither of them reacted first and second guessing is always easier.
I don't think the average household can afford a wind turbine or solar panels. The last quote I got was $45k for a wind turbine and $12k for solar.
 
Not to let facts get in the way of Coopy's rambling opinion's, here are some facts on oil prices and their relationship to gas prices (excluding taxes) since 1992. The data is from the DOE.

1992
Oil cost/barrel $19.25
(there are 42 gallons/barrel)
Oil cost/gallon $0.46
Cost of a gallon of gas $1.04
Cost to produce/distribute
and remaining profit $0.58
% of production/dist/profit
to retail price of gas 56%

2000
Oil cost/barrel $27.39
(there are 42 gallons/barrel)
Oil cost/gallon $0.65
Cost of a gallon of gas $1.26
Cost to produce/distribute
and remaining profit $0.61
% of production/dist/profit
to retail price of gas 48%

2008
Oil cost/barrel $136
(there are 42 gallons/barrel)
Oil cost/gallon $3.24
Cost of a gallon of gas $3.57
Cost to produce/distribute
and remaining profit $0.33
% of production/dist/profit
to retail price of gas 9%


Numbers seem to say the cost to produce/distribute and remaining profit for the oil companies has
dropped over time.

FYI...in the mean time gas taxes have increased from $0.38/gallon in 1992 to $1.39/gallon in 2008. Seems to me the real windfall profit has been at the state and federal gov't level.

Drill here. Drill now. Pay less.
 
NEK ...

"As I said JWcutandpastealwaysaschmuckfactuallychallengedCoop when Douglas vetoes a bill and the majority leaders can't come up with enough votes to override- we win-you lose-so get over it and move on. I know you need 2/3rd's majority and you didn't get it."

Actually, ya didn't say that, nekkie boy. Clearly, you dole out a lot of heapin' helpin's of dishonest, delusional dreck with no basis in fact, but what your ignorant, ill-informed ass is currently claiming wasn't an example of one of them.

Specifically, in your 4:59 PM, June 12, 2008 delusional-dreck riddled post ya said this:

"I think Douglas vetoed the right ones- he obviously had the majority of Montpelier on his side because the Symington/Shumlin couldn't gather support for an override."

Just where and when in that post do you say anything about Majority Legislative Leaders failing to get the necessary votes to override Doogie's vetoes?

Moreover, just where and when do you say anything about the Legislature, little factually-challenged/fundamentally-dishonest fella?

That's what I thought.

Your ignorant, ill-informed factually-challenged/fundamentally-dishonest ass merely claimed that "... he obviously had the majority of Montpelier on his side...", nekkie boy.

Whether it was your intent to claim that he obviously had the majority of the Vermont Legislature on his side or merely that "he obviously had the majority of Montpelier on his side, as I've accurately quoted you claiming, clearly, you don't think at all and you're obviously dumb, obviously scum and you obviously have bupkis and simply don't know what the hell you're talking about on this or any other issue you've painfully and pathetically persisted in pontificating on despite the fact that invariably, you're proved yourself to be nothing more than ignorant, ill-informed trash with bupkis clearly lacking in the ability to distinguish your ignorant ass from your elbow.

Irrespective of the season, the weather or the time of day, ignorant trash with bupkis is never a good look for you, nekkie boy.

"As for the question at hand- home heating costs- The Douglas Administration is being pro-active and setting up some good programs. He is being criticized by Symington and Pollina- too little too late but neither of them reacted first and second guessing is always easier."

Evidently, not as easy as you find - in the absence of any and all evidence in support of your latest load of specious slop - lying your ignorant, ill-informed ass off, little fundamentally-dishonest fella.

You're ignorant ass is gonna have to do better than characterize Doogie's dreck as "good programs" to substantiate his and your slop.

What'd ya get for a quote to haul away nuclear waste or decommission a nuke plant for the average Vermont homeowner, nekkie boy?

That's what I thought.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
According to NRC, the cost is about $800 mil, 1/2 already in the bank. The average Vermont homeowner will pay $0.00 of the decommissioning funds UNLESS we renege on existing contract(s) and proceed to close them down, thanks to Shumlin & VPIRG.
VT Yankee should, however, pay into this fund annually so that the clean-up fund escrowed coincides with the cost at time of decommissioning.
Save your response because you obviously disagree and claim all above to be gop slop or whatever and lies.
 
Anonymous said...

"Not to let facts get in the way of Coopy's rambling opinion's,..."

Nice try, little nameless-nitwit fella. Given the fact that the next fact your ignorant anonymous ass cites will be your first, all my troubles should be so large.

"... here are some facts on oil prices and their relationship to gas prices (excluding taxes) since 1992. The data is from the DOE.

1992
Oil cost/barrel $19.25
(there are 42 gallons/barrel)
Oil cost/gallon $0.46
Cost of a gallon of gas $1.04
Cost to produce/distribute
and remaining profit $0.58
% of production/dist/profit
to retail price of gas 56%

2000
Oil cost/barrel $27.39
(there are 42 gallons/barrel)
Oil cost/gallon $0.65
Cost of a gallon of gas $1.26
Cost to produce/distribute
and remaining profit $0.61
% of production/dist/profit
to retail price of gas 48%

2008
Oil cost/barrel $136
(there are 42 gallons/barrel)
Oil cost/gallon $3.24
Cost of a gallon of gas $3.57
Cost to produce/distribute
and remaining profit $0.33
% of production/dist/profit
to retail price of gas 9%

"Numbers seem to say the cost to produce/distribute and remaining profit for the oil companies has
dropped over time."

Really? They seem to say that, eh? Well, little factually-challenged/fundamentally-dishonest nameless-nitwit fella, assuming your figures are correct, if they're so much more efficient at delivering the stuff, why's the price so high?

That's what I thought.

A couple of weeks back, your ignorant, ill-informed anonymous ass was raking Welch and Congress over the coals for voting overwhelmingly to have Shrub stop adding to the SPR now that it's 97 percent full. If, as your coalition of the clueless cretin keister contends, it's merely a supply and demand issue, why didn't the price go down when supply was increased?

That's what I thought.

"FYI...in the mean time gas taxes have increased from $0.38/gallon in 1992 to $1.39/gallon in 2008. Seems to me the real windfall profit has been at the state and federal gov't level"

Well, that's why you're ignorant trash with bupkis and without a case or a clue, little nameless-nitwit fella.

The Federal Gas Tax is the same 18 cents it was 10-12 years ago when gas was selling for less than a buck/gallon.

So much for that load of delusional dreck.

Of course, we had a competent, legitimate President in the White House then and we weren't bogged down in an unjustified and unjustifiable war in Iraq he lied us into.

The Gops controlled Congress for 12 years from 1/95 - 1/07, little fella. That covered the last six of Clinton's eight years in Office and the first six of Shrub's after the Supreme Court installed him on the throne.

So, given the fact that the gops controlled Congress for 12 years and all three branches of the Federal Government for the first six years of Shrub's reign of error, just how did the Dems prevent the gops from implementing their energy plan?

That's what I thought.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
NEK said...

"...Save your response because you obviously disagree and claim all above to be gop slop or whatever and lies."

That's because they are, little factually-challenged/fundamentally-dishonest fella.

If ya can't make your case without falsifying evidence, cooking stats and just generally lying your ignorant, ill-informed ass as you clearly can't, nekkie boy, ya don't have one.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
moron
 
Anonymous said...

"moron"

Yeah, but ya don't let that stop ya from hockin' up your hopeless horsebrit, little factless, nameless-nitwit fella.

I'm proud of your ignorant, anonymous ass.

That's entertainment.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
So Coopy,

How's yor plan to solve the energy crisis coming? Will you be sharing it with us soon? This seems to be the only point in this blog you have been entirely silent on.
 
None of you liberals have yet to explain how taxing "excess" profits is going to lower the gas/oil prices. Welch did make a comment that the funds could be used for home heating assistance (which would help the those in need this winter) but other legislators want to spend the money to invent some way to operate cars sans gas. This strategy will NOT drop the gas price in this year and probably not this decade. If we all put more air in our tires and drive 5 MPH slower we can save a few gal/wk (maybe).
Why do the lib insist that it is better to import 12,000,000 gals of oil per day when we have that much under us and we can drill on our own land. Why they insist on exporting money to the Arabs (and Chevez) so they can turn it around and buy US companies. Do the dems have a secret love for the Arabs?
 
Anonymous....

So Coopy,

"How's yor plan to solve the energy crisis coming? Will you be sharing it with us soon? This seems to be the only point in this blog you have been entirely silent on.

See previous answers, little fact-free, nameless-nitwit fella.

If "yor" ignorant, illiterate, anonymous ass asks again, you'll get the same answer.

"Coop,

"How about your energy plan? We are all waiting for your solution.
As a reminder, insults are not solutions."

No, but in the face of your delusional dreck and factually-challenged gop-slop nekwit nonsense, they're hard-earned and well-deserved.

Nice try, little nameless-nitwit, ignorant-trash with bupkis fella.

Ah, the ol' "OK, maybe Bush, Cheney, the Doogie/Dubie Debacle and the Gops are lyin' scum and maybe my ignorant, ill-informed, lyin'-scum, anonymous ass doesn't know what the hell it's talkin' about and hasn't made a legitimate point since it got here, but what's your plan?" song and dance.

This is the third or fourth time one of you coalition of the clueless cretins has tried to pull this number in the last 48 hours and my answer is the same as it was when ya were still tryin' to pull this number on Hoffer, just which part of lose the gop scum responsible for puttin' us in the mess in the first place and make sure they never get their hands near the levers of power again is givin' your ignorant, anonymous lyin' ass trouble, schmuck?

Once again, neither I or any other member of the non-factually-challenged, gop-slop-spewin' reality-based community is under any obligation to disprove a case neither Bushco, it's demented, delusional-dreck dealin' defenders nor the ignorant-trash likes of your ill-informed anonymous ass never made in the first place.

Lose the gops and the World has a chance. As long as there's gops gummin' up the works with their stupid, selfish, short-sighted, specious slop, there's gonna be problems.


Always a pleasure.
 
NEK has left a new comment on the post "The heat is on":

None of you liberals have yet to explain how taxing "excess" profits is going to lower the gas/oil prices. Welch did make a comment that the funds could be used for home heating assistance (which would help the those in need this winter) but other legislators want to spend the money to invent some way to operate cars sans gas. This strategy will NOT drop the gas price in this year and probably not this decade. If we all put more air in our tires and drive 5 MPH slower we can save a few gal/wk (maybe).
Why do the lib insist that it is better to import 12,000,000 gals of oil per day when we have that much under us and we can drill on our own land. Why they insist on exporting money to the Arabs (and Chevez) so they can turn it around and buy US companies. Do the dems have a secret love for the Arabs?
 
NEK has left a new comment on the post "The heat is on":

"None of you liberals have yet to explain how taxing "excess" profits is going to lower the gas/oil prices."

Well, nekkie boy, given the fact that the gops ran Congress for the last six of Clinton's eight years in office and the first six years of bush's illegitimate-trash reign of error and they've, once again, prevented the Dems from ending the huge tax breaks that bush and the gop rubber-stamps gave the oil company and the price of oil and gas are considerably higher than when Clinton left office, what's to explain?

If Exxon/Mobil keeps havin' record quarter profits after record quarter profits while the price of oil and gas keeps continuing to go through the ceiling, why are American Taxpayers still forced to cover for the huge tax breaks Bush and the gop-run Congress gave them and refuse to let the Dems in Congress take away from them?

That's what I thought.

We're still stuck with Bush/Cheney's energy policies, we're still stuck with the war for oil they told us wasn't a war for oil that they lied us into in Iraq, the WTC towers still aren't there, Bin Laden still hasn't been killed or captured, Pat Tillman is still dead, his parents and the Country were still lied to about the circumstances of his death and his Mother is still claiming that they're still lying to her and the Country about her son's death, Pakistan is still pissed at us because one of our air-strikes "mistakenly" killed 11 of their soldiers at one of their border outposts and upwards of 50 thousand US Troops have been killed or maimed in Iraq for nothing with no end in sight while bush and clueless mcsame continue to oppose giving them a modern GI Bill.

Why does Bush/McCain hate the troops?

When Gop Economic Policies gave us the Stock Market Crash of 1929 and the Great Depression, it was FDR and the New Deal that saved Capitalism and allowed this Country to crawl out from under the gop wreckage and the GI Bill that created the Middle Class in this Country by enabling a majority of returning GIs to be the first generation in their families to go to College and become professionals.

Why do Bush, McCain, Congressional gops, Doogie/Dubie and the ignorant-trash likes of you who support them hate the USA and our troops, little factually-challenged/fundamentally-dishonest nekkie boy?

Your ignorant, ill-informed ass still hasn't answered any of those questions or addressed any of those points.

"..Welch did make a comment that the funds could be used for home heating assistance (which would help the those in need this winter) but other legislators want to spend the money to invent some way to operate cars sans gas. This strategy will NOT drop the gas price in this year and probably not this decade. If we all put more air in our tires and drive 5 MPH slower we can save a few gal/wk (maybe)..."

And how is that a bad thing?

That's what I thought.

The Congressional Vote to stop Bush from adding to the SPR when it's 97 percent full was 97-1 in the Senate and 385-25 in the House, little factually-challenged Nekkie Boy.

Is it your coalition of the clueless cretin contention that the Dems currently have a 97-3 majority in the Senate and hold at least 385 seats in the House?

"..Why do the lib insist that it is better to import 12,000,000 gals of oil per day when we have that much under us and we can drill on our own land. Why they insist on exporting money to the Arabs (and Chevez) so they can turn it around and buy US companies."

We don't. Why do gops keep lying and insisting that we do?

Again, nekkie boy, given the fact that the Gops have controlled the White House for 20 of the better part of 28 years since 1981, they've named seven of the nine Supreme Court Judges giving them control of at least two of the three branches of Government for all but the two year period between 1/93-1/95 when they managed to pass the legislation that enabled them to erase the first Reagan/Bush Deficit without a single gop Congressional vote, just how did the Dems keep the gops from implementing their economic/energy policies when it was those policies that created the first Reagan/Bush Deficit and created the second Bush Deficit after Clinton and the Dems got rid of the first and we're still suffering under the very policies that got us in this fix in the first place?

That's what I thought.

"Do the dems have a secret love for the Arabs?"

Nice try, nekwit.

No, it's just that, unlike gops racists and nazis, we have an open, deep and abiding love of Country, the facts and reality and a healthy disdain for factually-challenged, illegitimate, incompetent, brain-dead, bigoted-BS, racist-rubbish, gop-slop and neo-nazi nekwits with bupkis.

Why do the ignorant-trash likes of you and the gops love huge Federal Deficits and crushing National Debt while you hate clean water, well-educated children, Peace and Prosperity, the USA, our Troops, our Allies and the Environment, nekkie boy?

That's what I thought.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
Please be patient with Coopy and his clic- Obama loves this group- they take 24 to make a dozen (halfwits), they subscribe to the Daily Kos Weekly Reader (remember from the 7th grade), edited by Howard the Dean, (the guy who was going to save education finance (act 60, that is when it was $600 mil, now it is 1.3 BIL (and fewer students), and the same guy who chased all private insurance providers out of state and now we can't afford health insurance.
Coopy still can't answer a question, but he can throw garbage- just like Obama.
His answer to the gas/oil situation is not what will/could happen, it is all past tense.
 
This comment has been removed by the author.
 
JWCoop10 said...
NEK has left a new comment on the post "The heat is on":

"Please be patient with Coopy and his clic-...

"His answer to the gas/oil situation is not what will/could happen, it is all past tense."

In other words, it's rooted in fact, based on and substantiated by solid, actual historical evidence whereas your delusional dreck is invariably nothing more than factually-challenged/fundamentally-dishonest, fascist fairy tales with no factual foundation or so much as a nodding acquaintance with reality.

Thanks for clearin' that up, nekkie boy.

Always a pleasure.
Dismissed.
 
Moron
 
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