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Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen



Unite or fight?

Interesting missive from Burlington city Democratic Chairman Jake Perkinson this morning. The theme is uniting, but there's quite a few signs of friction within it. He revels in a Democrat defeating a Prog in the state House while claiming newly elected state senator Tim Ashe as a Dem rather than a Prog.

"Burlington Democrats enjoyed major victories in the recent election and are
poised to continue the spirit of unity and cooperation President-Elect Barack
Obama’s campaign has fostered.

In one of only two contested House
races in Burlington, Democrat Kesha Ram bested Progressive Party stalwart, Chris
Pearson in a decisive victory. Pearson was not elected to his seat, but
was appointed and faced a challenger for the first time in this election.
Presented with this opportunity for choice, voters in the University District
overwhelmingly favored the dynamic and positive Kesha Ram to represent them in
the State House. Kesha is dedicated to the environment and social justice and
worked extraordinarily hard on her campaign with the active support of many

In addition to the election of Burlington residents
Hinda Miller and Ed Flanagan, the recent election added a third Burlington
resident to the Senate: newly minted Democrat Tim Ashe. After a counting
snafu at City Hall, it was determined yesterday that Tim edged out former
Richmond Representative Denise Barnard for the sixth spot from Chittenden County
by less than 1%. The Democrats enthusiastically welcome Senator-elect Ashe
and look forward to his contribution in preserving a strong Democratic majority
in the State Senate. The Democratic Senate delegation from Chittenden
County has always served Burlington well and been responsive to the needs of the
State’s largest city and now there is every reason to expect that will
continue. Congratulations are also in order to top vote-getter Doug Racine
and to Ginny Lyons on their re-election successes. Looking at the numbers,
it’s clear that Diane Snelling also enjoyed some Democratic support to carry her
over the line. Which brings up an important point:

Although many missed it in the euphoria of Obama’s stunning
victory, one of the highlights of this presidential campaign came from Senator
John McCain, whose concession speech was a sincere and moving example of what
politics should be about: the recognition that, despite our differences, we are
all in this together and need to work together to solve our problems. Here
is an excerpt of Senator McCain speech summing up this sentiment:


This election saw some significant changes in
Burlington’s political landscape, change that reaffirmed the fundamental
principles of our political system in general and the openness of the Democratic
Party in particular. The Democrats were the only party to field a full
slate of candidates for every office and, true to the ideal of the democratic
process, actually had some primaries which tested incumbents and provided
opportunities for people who have never held office before to

Despite the overwhelming support for Barack Obama’s message
of change, unity and cooperation across party lines (echoed by his former
adversary, Sen. McCain) which resonated with the entire spectrum on the left, we
are once again faced here in Burlington with threats of obstructionism based not
on principles, but on petty power struggles. Thus, even before the
election was over, the Progressive leadership was threatening to punish the
Democrats for having the temerity to participate in the democratic
process. Here is what the sole Progressive Representative from Burlington,
David Zuckerman, had to say:

Zuckerman warned that a defeat for himself or Pearson would mean "it will be time for Progressives to seriously reflect on how Democrats have behaved in this race and how cooperative we should be in the future."
Is this really happening? Will the Progressives thwart legislation aimed
at benefiting Vermonters solely to “punish” Democrats purely out of political

“It is time to stop this absurdity,” said
Burlington Democratic Committee Chair, Jake Perkinson. “It is clear that
the failure of the Progressives and Democrats to unite is driven by the personal
vitriol of a few, and does not reflect the shared, principled positions of many
calling themselves either Progressives or Democrats. In order to achieve
positive change, we must unite and reject the politics of personal hatred and
political gamesmanship.”

Perkinson followed up by making an open
invitation to voters to join the Democratic Party: “We, as the Democratic Party,
invite all progressive voters, regardless of labels to join with us for
change. The Democrats have always welcomed all those who subscribe to the
principles of equality and justice to join with them in the fight for a better
future. Together we can do better.”

The Burlington City Democratic Committee will hold an open caucus to nominate their choice for the mayor of Burlington on December 3, 2008 at 6:30 pm. Perkinson emphasized that any Burlington voter interested in participating is welcome to come and expressed the hope that City Democrats will be joined by “our brothers and sisters who share the Democratic ideals that have enabled our country to advance from a slave-holding oligarchy to a truly democratic nation accepting of all people and embracing the differences that make us great.”

- Terri Hallenbeck

Seems a shame to replace Pearson with a kitten with lipstick.
The reference to Ashe is pretty clear - he serves at the pleasure of the Dems, and he should never forget it. Sticking a "slash P" after his name on the ballot was utterly meaningless.
Keesha was elected by UVM students who voted in 3-4 for the purpose of electing Barack Obama. Pearson had the support of many locals.
3-4 lost a good legislator as a result.
The absurdity was the Democratic support for someone who knows little about local needs for the sole purpose of thwarting Progressives who are up on local issues and strong representatives for their constituents.

Who is Jake Perkinson?
i am local and support kesha-maybe chris needed to get off his high horse and talk to some of us locals...hey progs time to start working with the dems and grow a thicker skin-do you read-or
just like to see your thoughts in writing...Jake Perkinson is the Burlington Democratic Committee Chair

just cause it ain't broken doesn't mean it can't be BETTER
Anonymous said...

"...Pearson had the support of many locals."

Not many enough, evidently, little fella.

Always a pleasure.
No way in hell Kesha will be a better legislator then Pearson.
3-4 is and has been a Progressive district. The difference this time were students voting.
who is Jake...was rhetorical. And Chris Pearson was acknowledged by his colleagues of all political persuasions as an outstanding legislator.
I read as much as you do, I expect and do know that a Los Angeles based UVM student whose only political experience is in the student body at college does not compare to an experienced legislator who reflects the political and social aims of his district.

as a Montpelier based person suspect you are not familiar with Burlington politics and should reserve your comments.
Certainly doesn't sound like Jake wants to cooperate with anyone from the tone of his speech.
Coop has to run his yap about everything. It's in his troll contract.

Next up jw with the hourly "little fella/bupkis" retort.
Gosh, someone got elected on the back of UVM students? Anyone remember how Bernie Sanders won by ten votes? He practically lived in the dorms. How quickly they forget.
Yeah, but Bernie had substance.
hmmm a UVM student who gets elected to the house...sounds similar to Dave Zuckerman. Kesha Ram will be a great legislature. I have met her several times and her experiences in the environmental sector will be ideal as we are trying to bring Green Jobs into VT, looking at our energy policy, and how we need to look at our mass transit in VT.
She ghas no relevant experience.
We really lost out on this one.
Job creation and energy policy? You've got to be kidding.
"Yeah, but Bernie had substance."

Then why did he need to get half of his votes from students who wouldn't be around for most of his term?

Stop whining, Pearson can go back to DC now.


as a Montpelier based person suspect you are not familiar with Burlington politics and should reserve your comments."

And as ignorant anonymous trash with bupkis whinin' because their candidate got beat fair and square under the existing rules of the game, you should go cheney yourself, little fella.

Let me know if I'm goin' too fast for ya.

Always a pleasure.
Zuckerman has stayed there because of the UVM students - way to look a gift hourse in the mouth!!
Pearson; no loss
Anonymous said...

"Coop has to run his yap about everything. It's in his troll contract.

Next up jw with the hourly "little fella/bupkis" retort."

Nice try, nitwit.

I could go every 30 seconds and have plenty of material left over just focusin' on the psychotic slop your ignorant anonymous scum-vote ass spews, schmuck.

Always a pleasure.
Anonymous said...

"Zuckerman has stayed there because of the UVM students - way to look a gift hourse in the mouth!!"

Zuckerman has stayed there because he gets the most eligible voters to vote for him, schmuck.

Perhaps your ignorant, anonymous, "hourse's" ass's clueless-cretin candidate should give that strategy a try and see what happens, schmuck.

And as long as you're up, it wouldn't kill ya to learn how to spell horse, use spellcheck or get yourself a case and a clue while you're at it, too, little fella.

Always a pleasure.
Anonymous said...

"Job creation and energy policy? You've got to be kidding."

Job creation without energy policy! Get your head outta your bush, bonehead.

If memory serves, Bernie served four terms as Mayor of Burlington, schmuck. He didn't get all those votes from UVM Students.

What's more, he served seven terms in Congress before he got elected to the Senate. He didn't get all those votes from UVM Students, either, schmuck.

In case ya haven't noticed, I just hate ignorant anonymous trash with bupkis and without a case or a clue dolin' out delusional dreck with no basis in fact they can never substantiate and frequently can't spell like it's goin' outta style, so ya know I'm enjoyin' pullin' your nameless-nitwit wings off, little fella.

Always a pleasure.
Bernie would still be painting houses without dorm storming. Deal with it
"Bernie would still be painting houses without dorm storming. Deal with it"

Naw, he'd be up at koops house listening to Jiffy's old Hendrix records and smoking dope while they did tag team trolling.

Just kidding Koop. Sanders could never get stoned enough to want to hang with a freak like you.

Hell, Willy Nelson wouldn't even be able to get that high.

"Bernie would still be painting houses without dorm storming. Deal with it"

Sure, that's why he's got 12 hits in his last 12 at bats - all for extra bases - and his opponents are 0-everything, schmuck.

Fine. If that helps you get to your ignorant anonymous ass's happy place, little fraudulent fella.

Ya might wanna see somebody about that PTSD thing, sport. I'd hate to read about ya goin' off the rails, scarin' folks on Church Street Marketplace and havin' some guy from Banana Republic take up a collection to get ya a one-way ticket to one.

The thought of your ignorant anonymous ass wanderin' in a daze askin' strangers how ya say "Which end is up?" in Spanish would haunt me for seconds.

Always a pleasure.
Anonymous said...

"...Just kidding Koop."

You'd kinda have to be, schmuck.

Give my best to your mom.

Always a pleasure.
Without that first win, he's got no momentum, and he's the 80's version of Pollina.

Speaking of Pollina - left the P's halfway through the campaign, Ashe bailed whether he or the P's want to admit it or not, Clavelle did the same, Kiss on his way out... we call that "swirling"
Koopy must be all tired out. He's not even making an effort tonight. Just copy and paste from his troll crib notes.

Must have been all tuckered out for about ten years now.
Koopy must be all tired out. He's not even making an effort tonight. Just copy and paste from his troll crib notes.

Must have been all tuckered out for about ten years now.
"JWCoop10 said... You'd kinda have to be, schmuck.

Give my best to your mom."

Mom said...'Tell Shorty I will see him Friday night down at Ben & Jerry's.' Shorty?
Progs and Dims - dumb and dumber.
And that leaves "dumbest."
So we trade LA for DC and see it as an improvement? At least Pearson had experience. And yes you've got to be kidding me that Ram is going to create jobs here.
Solution is simple. Out-of-state students vote for the national ticket only. They get to vote for what's relevant to them and residents get to vote for what is relevant to them. Fair all around.
"Zuckerman has stayed there because of UVM students..." No, Zuckerman has been re-elected in this district several times. UVM students figure in the election only when it is a presidential one and even then don't bother to inform themselves about local issues but vote on them anyway.
yes 7:56! look at the rest of the count in 3-4. ortega had about 700 votes, even though anyone who reads the free press (i.e. LOCALS) knew that if elected he would refuse to serve, and that he only ran to be a sponge. UVM sees the little 'D' next to his name and throws him votes. it is so unfortunate that this situation occurs (in any college town around the country). students need to be more aware about how much they affect a local community. they vote here on things like our school budget, yet these are the same kids that pee on our porches, knock over our trash cans, and disturb our sleep in the wee hours of the morning. after four years of partying, they go home to NJ or CA. ram is a phony opportunist and was elected by people that will never have to suffer the consequences. there is something seriously wrong with this picture.
The word on the street is that Ashe's campaign was to have all progs "bullet" vote him or at least to leave Denise Barnard off theit ballot.

Clearly the Progs knew how to manipulate a vote and that is what they did!

Ashe needs to remember that Dems voted him in - that is who is allegiance lies with.
Denise Barnard is a great legislator and Ashe's manipulation of the vote changes that.
I spoke with Progressives. None of them urged voting for Ashe or spoke against Denise Barnard. Fabrication.
But it is true that Ram manipulated the vote. She admitted it.
If Dems are responsible for voting Ashe in and he owes his allegiance to them, sounds like they may have betrayed Barnard themselves. Think about what you just said. You can't have it both ways.
ward one is not strictly progressive...if you don't live in ward one-please don't speak for us who do live in ward one. change is good, how do any elected officials gain experience-everyone is a newbee at some point in their career. instead of being petty and bitter work as a community to bring good things to our city and state-whomever represents us will do a great job-but not if they have to weed thru all of this. If they do not represent you well-then you'll get your chance to vote again-thats how it works...did you want to change that? talk to all of the people that voted for Bush TWICE!!!
Ward one has voted Progressive for twenty years. Democrats are the ones you should be speaking to as they are the ones who put forth ringers instead of legitimate candidates knowing that Obama's coat-tails and the fact that UVM students vote here would give them representation they otherwise would not have had. Those are facts.
The other UVM undergraduate student who ran on the DEMOCRATIC ticket admitted that he had no intention of serving if elected and only agreed to run to help Kesha out by provided a straight Democratic ticket so that those voting for Obama could just vote without thinking whom else they might have voted for.
He was simply there to draw votes away from people who represented the majority of local voters.
interesting-everyone talks about change-but in the end sounds like they can't handle it-ward one as mentioned above is mix of students and locals. "ward one has voted progressive for the last 20 years"...perhaps ward one is changing? should it stay the same as it always has? do you live there-again-i ask that if you do not live in ward one do not assume you know what kind of people live there.
ward has gotten hit with some big issues in the last several years. and we need our community to be stronger not petty and bitter.
That may be how it works, but I personally feel that I should be represented by people who really reflect the viewpoints of the people who live in my ward, not someone who got there by trickery.
Change for its own sake is not necessarily beneficial--witness the economic situation we are in--it's certainly change but not for the better. If we're going to change, let's have it for the better, please.
trickery is putting two names on one sign as a package deal...
There is no evidence that the Ward is changing. In non-presidential election years we vote solidly Progressive.

The twenty years was in response to you assertion that the ward is not Progressive. It was simply to point out that in fact the ward is solidly progressive.

Advocating of change for it's own sake shows a lack of maturity. Presumably one votes on issues and for those who are best at advocating for them.
Putting two names on one sign is economically practical.
Trickery-two names on one sign trickery as opposed to getting someone who has no intention of serving to run with you for your own benefit without people being aware of this?
putting two names on one sign may be economical but is misleading-many people thought it meant the two candidates were on one ticket-and when they found out they felt mislead.

I am simply saying these issues go both ways and instead of focusing on them focus on the tasks at hand.

I am in no way saying change just for changing-what I am trying to say is the city is changing-as is ward one-so the vote may change-so counting on a progressive vote each election may not happen...and maybe it is for the good-maybe someone else can come in and do a great job-ward one has many issues...and as said before if they don't do a good job-vote for someone else next time-or do you want to keep the same person in office for eternity??
Sorry, your side is the one short on ethics here.
Putting two names on one sign simply demonstrates like thinking. One is free to choose to vote for both, one or neither. It is straightforward and does not deny anyone choice. The other example is deceitful and underhanded. Short on ethics.
No I don't want to keep people in office indefinitely, but I would like the choice, which locals, were denied, to keep people who have done a fine job representing me in office.
TO: Anonymous | 9:55 AM

well informed people were aware-it was in the paper, on forums and people we simply out talking about it

and somehow people still voted for Kesha

many people who had signs up for Dave Zuckerman were not aware that he and Chris Pearson were not a package deal-maybe those people did not ask because they did not know-but the sign posters did not tell them either
Well-informed people were well aware that there was no package deal; that one votes for individuals and if you will check the results for the district you will find that the uninformed UVM students are responsible for Kesha's win as they voted straight party line without distinguishing or possibly caring that her running mate was a ringer.
Certainly, she had some local Democratic support, but this has never been sufficient to turn out Progressives who are the majority in the district. The difference was the UVM student vote--people who have no vested interest in how well locals are represented in their legislature.

From my perspective, the end doesn't justify the means. If Dems think that than they're not much different that those we just voted out of national office.
Student money keeps ward one from collapsing in on itself. Stop whining about the students, they keep this town afloat.
Ummm no they don't, you arrogant, 20-year-old, out-of-stater. You don't even pay taxes here. You think because you buy a lot of beer at Pearl St. Beverage you are "keeping this town afloat?" Stop puking in the streets and waking our children up, and maybe I'll start respecting your vote.
"you arrogant, 20-year-old, out-of-stater. You don't even pay taxes here."

Hilarious - you're WAY off on the age, and I guarantee I pay more taxes than you do. I just laugh at the double standard, it was fine for Bernie but when a Prog (who has never won a contested election here) is bumped, time to change the rules!
Perkinson should at least do his research: Pearson was originally appointed but was elected to the seat in 2006. He may have run unopposed in 2006, but he was elected.
Perkinson is correct; Pearson was not originally elected to his seat, he was appointed. He did not attain it in 2006, he retained it (by default).

I love Zuckerman's "threat," BTW. Check out his written statement from a couple of days ago, the guy sounds barely literate.

"oooo... I'm afraid now. You are a real tough guy."

Gee, I love the smell of anonymous trash hurlin' anonymous threats at each other on the Buzz in the afternoon.

It smells like.... well, pretty much like it smells all the time around here.

Why don't you clueless clowns just start postin' each other's names and addresses, threatenin' each other's spouses and offerin' google map directions to each other's place like ya always do when you're on the ropes.

Or, in the alternative, ya could grow a pair, put your name behind your nonsense and cut the crap.

Nameless nitwit #1's candidate won under the existing rules of the game.

Unless nameless-nitwit #2 can cough up evidence that they didn't do it on the up and up, that's all they're required to do. Nameless nitwit #2 needs to deal with it.

Hey, given what we're payin' doogie's PR putzes, I don't like the fact that the so-called liberal media sat on this doogie mileage malarkey for two weeks so as not to unduly influence the election or whatever lofty lunacy they're attempting to use to rationalize away they're serving as unpaid PR flacks for the doogie/dubie debacle any more than I like Pollina's latest ego trip splitting the anti-doogie vote, but I've gotta live with two more years of doogie deluge and so do you nameless nitwits.

Thems the rules. If ya don't like 'em, try to change them.

No I don't want to keep people in office indefinitely, but I would like the choice, which locals, were denied, to keep people who have done a fine job representing me in office.

'Scuse me while I kick this nameless nitwit.

What denied, deduce bag!

Were you turned away from the polls? Can your ignorant anonymous ass cough up evidence of wholesale Prog purges from the voter rolls by a Prog Mayoral Administration?

Christ, ya can't even pin this on the Pavilion putzes.

What's the rumpus? She got her voters to turn out. Your guy didn't. End of frickin' story. Deal with it.

Just which part of that is givin' your ignorant anonymous ass trouble, little fella?

Grow a pair and get yourself a case and a clue or get lost.

Ya savvy, schmuck?
oh, believe me, I never said it was okay that Bernie was elected by students. in fact, he should go back to where he came from too.
Boy, those Progs had a bad day and they are takin it hard.

"oh, believe me, I never said it was okay that Bernie was elected by students. in fact, he should go back to where he came from too."

And another nameless nitwit takes credit for somethin' he had absolutely nothin' to do with.

Gee, what are the odds.

Go schtupp yourself, schmuck. You had nothin' to do with where you were born.

Bernie's been in Vermont since 1964. He was here long before the incompetent-trash masshole likes of doogie the dimwit darkened our door.

Deal with it, little factually-challenged/nameless-nitwit fella.

Like it or not, he's done more for Burlington, for Vermont and for his Country than the ignorant anonymous trash likes of you and bubbakis combined.

If ya can't handle reality, try Oklahoma.

Wow, I thought the poor fools on this blog were the most vitriolic people you could find, but now I hear Dave Zuckerman has kicked Ed Adrian and his family out of his farm share because Adrian endorsed Kesha Ram! What a petty little man. You Progs sure have a strong value system - deprive families with young kids of healthy vegetables if they don't vote your way - dictators everywhere are smiling.
Oklahoma? Coop you are a true moron. Try growing up. Then maybe someone will take you seriously.
Hey, if the Progs get cleaned up a little, like take baths, maybe they can join the dims. And if they get jobs, maybe they can become Republicans.
Anonymous said...

"Oklahoma? Coop you are a true moron. Try growing up. Then maybe someone will take you seriously."

Well, little fella, if I ever start valuing the ignorant anonymous trash opinions of nameless-nitwit nation, I'll bear that in mind.

Always a pleasure.
Dave states above that he feels that the Democratic Party is too broad. http://whatsgood.7dvt.com/2008/11/ram-zuckerman-t.html I wonder then how he supports someone like Dexter Randall? Mr. Randall was the Orleans-Franklin 1 candidate who lost in a three way race.

It was the Democrat in that race who was supported by Planned Parenthood NNE. Mr. Randall evidently did not even bother to fill out the PPNNE survey. http://www.ppnne.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AF_PPNNEActionFundVermont&JServSessionIdr001=zh3hu0ymd2.app1b

Mr. Randall voted against a bill that was sponsored by Dave that would have allowed life ending prescriptions for terminally ill patients. http://www.votesmart.org/issue_keyvote_detail.php?cs_id=13047&can_id=51159

Nor did Mr. Randall mention anything on his website or about marriage choice or being endorsed by the Vermont Freedom to Marry Action Committee or his support for marriage equality http://progressiveparty.org/dexter/ although to their credit Dave, Chris and Kesha all did one or the other. http://www.davezuckerman.com/Issues.html http://www.christopherpearson.org/

It is odd that Dave would claim to support a very narrow platform and then support someone like Mr. Randall as a progressive ally, when it is clear that Mr. Randall does not appear to support some of the major planks of the Progressive Party platform. http://www.progressiveparty.org/?page=16#families (look under civil rights).

Now let me be clear, there are plenty of Democrats, even my fellow city councilors who have voted against things I find to be fundamental to my liberal core beliefs, but I am willing to accept those votes and to try to work together in a "big tent".

I do not know why anyone would think I am a "bitter Dem". I have won every race that I have ever had against a Progressive. I believe in probably 95% of the Progressive Platform (my bet is that both Kesha and I support more items on the Progressive Platform then Mr. Randall does). I supported Kesha Ram, not just because she was a Democrat, but because just being right on the issues is only half of the game. Reaching out and earning the trust and respect of your constituency (not just your legislative colleagues) is the other half and I believe that Kesha is more qualified to do that. Kesha ran a very strong and very positive campaign, despite the personal attacks that she endured from others.

Dave has also worked very hard at reaching out to the community and I applauded him for his efforts publicly on the FPF on October 30, 2008 where I stated the following:

"I have known Dave Zuckerman for over a decade when we shared a regular card game with a group of other folks. I am a founding member of his CSA, he came to our wedding and I consider him a friend. He has worked hard and I wish him the best of luck. Remember that each and every one of you in the Chittenden 3-4 legislative district can vote for two people for the Vermont House. I would encourage all of you to join me in voting for Kesha." *** I should note that as of November 5, 2008 I became, not due to my own choice, a former member of Dave's CSA.

I also publicly supported Tim Ashe (through a BFP LTE) in the Senate primary and received some push back from some fellow Ds for the letter. However, at the State level, I believe in the things that Tim believes in and he was doing what the Democrats have asked other Progressives to do (run in a primary). Fusion is the wave of the future.

I believe in the two party system, but that does not mean that I am blind to the qualities that individual candidates can bring to the table.

If anybody above wants to discuss this with me, they can call me anytime on my cell phone at 233-2131.

"She ghas no relevant experience."

Either did Dave, when, as a recent UVM grad, he ran against a long-term Dem. rep.

By the way, Adrian isn't the only person who disagreed with Zuckerman and then was no longer wanted as a member of his CAS anymore.
Kudos to you Ed!!!

The Progressives really need to take a step back - especially David Zuckerman.
"I personally feel that I should be represented by people who really reflect the viewpoints of the people who live in my ward, not someone who got there by trickery."

You mean, by someone who was appointed to his state rep seat in 2004? Gimme a break.
He was appointed because he reflected the views of the constituency. Ram does not. She was the one who used underhanded means not he.
Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "Unite or fight?":

"He was appointed because he reflected the views of the constituency. Ram does not."

The majority of eligible voters don't seem to share your opinion, little factually-challenged fella.

"..She was the one who used underhanded means not he."

Then I'm sure you'll have no problem provin' just that, little factually-challenged fella.

As always, if you have evidence to the contrary, feel free to cough it up, present it and make your case.

The floor is yours. Present away, little fella.

Fine. Now that you've established that, grow a pair, get yourself a case and a clue and stuff a sock in it.

Always a pleasure.
Underhandedness? Trickery? These are powerful words. I assume that you are referring to the use of the so called "sponge" or "soaker"or as the Free Press termed him "phantom" candidate, Phillip Ortego. Forget about the fact that this same article had a quote by former progressive stalwart Terry Boricious indicating that sponge candidates are often used in this type of a situation. What differed in this instance is that Mr. Ortego was honest enough to admit that he did not plan on serving.

Those of you who think that this is a trick or underhanded, obviously are quite cynical about the ability of the voters to discern for themselves who they want to vote for. In fact many voters just want someone or another of a particular party because they agree with the ideology of that party.

Was the decision to have a second candidate tactical? Sure. It is no different then what Obama did. Yes that is right Obama, at least by associate with Joe Biden.

As you all know Joe Biden was running for VP. What is less known is that his Senate seat was also up. Now I hope that Joe fully intended all along to get elected VP and I have no doubt that he did (unlike Gov. Palin who seemed to be using the campaign for her own future needs). If his intent was to be elected VP, then he could not have possibly intended to serve if he was elected to the Senate. Remember we are talking about intent here which is all that matters when invoking harsh adjectives like "underhanded" and "trickery". SO VP elect Biden's only possible INTENT is that since he was going for the VP slot, he was running as a soaker or sponge with the INTENT that upon winning the VP slot his "phantom race" in the Senate, he would then be referred to the Democrat governor of Delaware who would then choose a substitute. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/politics/06successor.html

So were Biden and by association Obama acting underhanded and tricky? I bet that the folks who commented above using these adjectives will find some way to argue that they did not. Why? because they supported that race.

In the end Einstein had it right when he argued that everything is affected by subjective reference points.

Ed Adrian
The majority UVM students, I would bet, did not inform themselves about local elections and I think it is fair to say were there to support a national candidate whose coattails elected someone of the same party--a recognized political phenomenon. And yes it is deceitful to get some to put his name on the ballot just to draw with that person not intending to serve. That's reality no matter how you try to gild the lily.
Ethics are not subjective otherwise we would have no civil laws, Einstein nothwithstanding.
There are core values in a civilization. Your own party coined the term Rovian to describe just such political tactics. You are saying it's OK depending upon your party. Most would agree that viewpoint is unethical.
What I am saying is that it IS ethical . . . period. I am saying that the oppositions view (see anonymous posts above) is that it depends on relativity. This begs the questions though, how do you feel about what Obama/Biden did?

By the way, ethics are subjective. See cultural relativism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_relativism

Speaking of ethics it is hard to argue the point with someone posting anonymously.


"There are core values in a civilization. Your own party coined the term Rovian to describe just such political tactics. You are saying it's OK depending upon your party. Most would agree that viewpoint is unethical.

Only if most were ignorant anonymous trash with bupkis, no case, no clue and no sense of proportion, putz.

Unlike you, little fella, most people don't fit that description.

Again, nitwit, are you seriously equating a Dem beating your candidate fairly and squarely with rovian tactics?

Feel free to cough up any and all evidence of Kesha Ram playing an active role in voter purging efforts or the outing of covert CIA agents for political gain.

Call a cop, clueless.

I don't give a damn what "you'd bet", little fella. Providing they meet all the requirements under existing law, UVM Students have the right to register to vote here if they choose to do so for whomever they choose to vote for, whether your sorry butt likes it or not.

They've got military folks on the Redneck Riviera in Florida registered to vote in Pensacola and Escambia County who haven't lived there in years. Ya gonna tell me they're up to date on all the down ballot candidates and local issues, little nameless-nitwit fella.

If you don't like the law or the rules, try and change them.

Like Gerald Ford, your boy got beat the only time he ever faced the voters, so unless you've got evidence of voter fraud or some other offense you can link to Kesha Ram and the Dems, stop whinin', grow a pair, deal with it and stuff a sock in it.

Your boy got beat. There's nothin' rovian about it. You have no case. End of frickin' story.

Military personnel on the "Redneck Riviera" probably have not been back to their bases or residents the past few years because they are somewhere else in the world (i.e., Iraq)defending your right to be the biggest a**hole in Vermont, if not the universe. Many of us think they might just have the right to vote.

"Military personnel on the "Redneck Riviera" probably have not been back to their bases or residents the past few years because they are somewhere else in the world (i.e., Iraq)defending your right to be the biggest a**hole in Vermont, if not the universe...."

Nah, your job is safe, bubbakis. You've got union protection.

Moreover, unless they're in Afghanistan, bubbakis, how does shrub blowing 12 billion per month in Iraq and putting their lives and limbs needlessly at risk keep me or anyone else safer, little fella?

You do realize that saddam is dead, he had wmd and no role in Iraq, don't you, little fella?

It was in all the papers. Five years, 50 thousand needlessly killed or maimed US Military Personnel and 600 billion bucks or so ago, bonehead.

Who said they couldn't vote, schmuck? They've got every bit as much right to vote as UVM Students or anyone else for that matter providing they're legally registered voters conforming to all the necessary requirements and conditions.

What's more, many of us think they should be alive, in one piece at home with their family and friends and able to vote in their place of residence and that money could have been put to better use, little fraudulent fella.

They've got the right to vote, bubbakis. Scooter, the Dukestir and Teddy Boy don't, but they do.

Always a pleasure.
Maybe we could have ACORN take on the responsibility for regitering our military, again and again and again........................
What da ya have to say about ACORN JW you left wing apologist asshole
JW says
se no evil hear no evil speak no evil if it pertains to the left wing whacko patrol
The "sponge" is only an issue if both Progs lose. Anyone who cast a vote for Ortego over Pearson clearly had no feelings for Pearson as a candidate.

I guess we'll find out if this was an aberration in two years, assuming Pearson hasn't pissed off back to DC. At least we have learned a couple of things about Zuckerman.
The truth of the matter is that the Progressives did not do well in this election and they are really pissed. So the question now is how will they exact their revenge on the Democrats.
"So the question now is how will they exact their revenge on the Democrats."

By not selling them carrots, apparently.
"So the question now is how will they exact their revenge on the Democrats."

By not selling them carrots, apparently.
By sentencing Vermont to two more years of the jimi douglas experience.
"At least we have learned a couple of things about Zuckerman."

Actually, I'd say we learned it a couple of years ago when he showed that he was willing to potentially throw our Congressional seat to Rainville for his own ego.
"By sentencing Vermont to two more years of the jimi douglas experience."

Wrong. I have no use for Pollina, but this assumes Gaye "21%" Symington would have won had Pollina not been in the race. Even if she had gotten all of Pollina's votes (which she wouldn't have), that's 42%. 55% beats 42% every time.

And if you're right, then saving us from Gaye is the only positive thing Pollina has ever done.
How true!
Coopy is wrong again.
Said the left ignorant anonymous ass cheek to the right.

Nice try, nitwit.

Always a pleasure.
Find new material Coopy....your cut and pastes only show your limited ability for creative thought.
Pollina + Symington could not beat Douglas.

Pollina saved us from Symington
Symington saved us from Pollina
Thats why they practically tied.
"Said the left ignorant anonymous ass cheek to the right."

And poor little pathetic JW in the middle as always.

"Find new material Coopy...."

Find some material, schmuck. Your ignorant anonymous trash only confirms the presence of nothing but ignorant anonymous trash.

Always a pleasure.
To everyone who keeps talking about uninformed UVM students:

All three candidates saturated UVM with their political stances and their campaign. There was lit from both sides put under every single door in the res halls. All buildings had hundreds of flyers attached to the billboards. Every newspaper had inserts and numerous ads and articles about all three of them.

It was impossible to not be informed about this election. It was everywhere.
Awwww Jiffy!

You're not even trying anymore.

What's wrong putz, OD on the truth about what a shame you are to your family every time you open your yap?

Come on freak show. Tell us all how much Mo and the boys admire and love you. Everyone here could use a good laugh.

Better yet pretend to post as Mo saying what a stud you are.

Come on blubber boy, yer public is waiting for the next laugh riot from JWPoop10.
Nothing against students, BUT...they are totally ignorant of the real world and actually believe the treasonous trash they are indoctrinated with at UVM, etc. by the left-over draft-dodging scum of the Vietnam era. Hopefully, when they discover the real world and actually have to get jobs, maybe those whose brains have not totally been turned to mush will see a different side to the world, unlike hopeless cretins such as jw, career lay-about.
Nothing against bitter old republicans BUT... it must suck to be old and believe that you're really better than us.

Get over yourself. We're not ignorant because we choose to learn at a higher institution. Would you rather we go get dead end jobs right out of high school? Just because you've hated your life at some job you hate doesn't mean that you've seen the "real world"

Why so bitter?
Bitter? This is one of Bubba's better days.
Ignorant anonymous trash with no case, no clue, no life and no sack livin' in their mama's basement talkin' about the real world.

That's a good one, little factually-challenged fella.

Don't go changin, little fella, I love you just the way you are.

You're the scum-vote slime gift that keeps on givin'.

Always a pleasure.
JW, it's only 4:55 and you are incoherent. Take it easy on the Richards.
Bubba is not bitter, just resigned to the ignorance of so many unqualified voters (i.e., see ACORN). But as in the past it is just a matter of time, say about 2010, when the voters discover that Obama is not "the anointed one" but just another con-artist ethically-challenged Chicago pol whose appointees, in grand old dimocrat fashion, start looting the treasury for themselves. Probably a Republican pickup of about 50 seats in the House and 8-10 in the Senate.

Good day.
And is that gonna happen before or after the cow jumps over the moon and the dish runs away with the spoon, bubbakis?

Always a pleasure.
Lay off the Richards, Coop. It isn't even 9AM yet.

Get a life. Seek Help.
It's been a year, schmuck. You clueless cretins haven't forced me to crack a sweat yet. I've seen your ignorant anonymous ass's act. Not a one of ya have come up with anything resembling a case or a clue yet.

It's not like you're gonna get any better as the day goes by.

Ya were here 24/7 and had no game when I got here. Nothin's changed for you nitwits. Ya haven't gotten better. You've just gotten older and slower.

That's not a good look for you loons, schmuck.

Dim, dumb and delusional is no way to go through life, little fella.

"Dim, dumb and delusional is no way to go through life, little fella."

After 55 years of living it you should know twit. If you don't like the life change or die.
"Dim, dumb and delusional is no way to go through life, little fella."

Words only the Master could speak.

The Richards must have won out yesterday Coop. Passed out for most of the day huh?

Some Excedrin will help ease the dull throb but it won;t make those little voices in your head go away.
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