vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

12.03.2007

Racine mulling rematch

Sorry we didn't get this out sooner.

Doug Racine has begun telling people he's actually considering whether to become the Democratic gubernatorial challenger in 2008, setting up a rematch against Republican Jim Douglas. You remember that Racine suffered a painful defeat in 2002, losing to Douglas by 5,871 votes. Con Hogan nabbed 22,353 votes in that race as a centrist independent. The wounds have apparently healed enough so Racine would consider challenging the three-term incumbent.

Racine said he's been watching from the sidelines this fall as some Democrats declared that absolutely no, they wouldn't be the Democratic candidate in 2008 while three -- Matt Dunne, John Campbell and Peter Galbraith -- have allowed their names to float for weeks while they take the political pulse.

Meanwhile, Progressive Anthony Pollina has complicated Democrats' lives by seemingly beginning his campaign. Many Democrats can't forgive Pollina for what they see as his role in Peter Shumlin's defeat in the lieutenant governor's race in 2002. Republican Brian Dubie eked out a victory with 41.2 percent of the vote, while Shumlin finished with 32.2 percent and Pollina received 24.8 percent.

A few weeks ago, Doug Racine told me he wasn't a candidate -- no way in 2008. In the interim, people have been pressing him to consider a run. "People, when I talked politics with them, said, 'why don't you think about it?' So I'm thinking about it."

Would Racine be a candidate Progressives could rally around, allowing Pollina to back off?
Is Racine the Democrat that Democrats could rally around to mount a strong challenge of Douglas?
Is Douglas sufficiently vulnerable for Racine to risk his political ambitious in 2008 or should he bide his time until Douglas chooses to retire?

--Nancy Remsen

posted by vt.Buzz | 4:23 PM |

Comments:

Lots of names of Democratic challengers for Gov.

But no names of Republican challengers for Congress.

I guess Welch isn't even going to have to campaign in '08.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:57 PM, December 03, 2007

Racine would be the strongest of the candidates being mentioned, and is liberal enough that the Progressives could probably back him. He may decide to try running this year since so many others are also waiting for the year Douglas retires.

That said, he will have an uphill battle. Will Vermonters want to have both a very liberal Legislature and a very liberal governor? That combination would likely lead to more spending and higher taxes, which is what Douglas will run against if Racine throws his hat in the ring.

In any event, Racine could help make this an interesting polical year in Vermont!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:58 PM, December 03, 2007

Actually, I think he'd take a more thoughtfull approach to pocketbook issues.

Douglas has ignored rising healthcare costs (the Catamount plan is a joke.)

Douglas has ignored rising energy costs.

Since Douglas became governor he has proposed millions for an unsistainable College scholarship program.

He's done nothing to address the serious problems with crumbling bridges and roads ... which is costing Vermonters a lot of money.

Douglas talks a good game, but he hasn't done anything to make Vermont more affordable.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:30 PM, December 03, 2007

If memory serves, Pollina actually opted out of the Guv race in 2002 and went after LG giving Racine a clear shot at Douglas.

If Racine couldn't pull off the victory for an open seat with a right-leaning independent in the race why would anyone think he stands a chance now?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:00 PM, December 03, 2007

In favor of Racine: some people are getting tired of Douglas, plus it is a presidential year which ensures a strong Dem turnout after the Bush years.

Going against Racine: He is even less dynamic than Douglas, and he is a leading member of a dysfunctional Democratic-controlled Legislature

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:45 PM, December 03, 2007

Gov. Racine + President Pro Tem Shumlin + Speaker Symington = higher taxes on productive Vermonters, and thus a compelling reason to leave the state.

Isn't there a fiscally conservative Democrat out there, like Howard Dean before he got national ambitions?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:49 PM, December 03, 2007

Racine is probably a smart guy who realizes that Vermonters appreciate the work Douglas has done

Douglas is popular because he focuses on making progress--telecom, scholarships, insurance for the uninsured, longterm care for seniors, sustainable education spending, etc.-- and Vermonters trust him to make solid, responsible. That's especially important these days. He also is a viewed as a good counter-balance to the irresponsible, big spending, tax raisers in the Legislature.

Racine knows if he loses this time around, especially at the age of 55, he'll be stuck in the State Senate forever.

His only shot is to wait until Douglas retires at the end of another term or two. That's pretty much the only shot any of the Democrats have of being governor.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:07 PM, December 03, 2007

Anonymous said...

"Gov. Racine + President Pro Tem Shumlin + Speaker Symington = higher taxes on productive Vermonters, and thus a compelling reason to leave the state."

Don't let the door hit ya in your "productive" ass on the way outta here, sport.

You, yourselves, bubbles and Mississippi were made for each other.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 10:32 PM, December 03, 2007

Thanks for the high value contribution jw. We can always count on you to bring a board to its lowest form. You make Bubba look like a choir boy.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:36 PM, December 03, 2007

"Douglas is popular because he focuses on making progress--telecom, scholarships, insurance for the uninsured, longterm care for seniors, sustainable education spending, etc."

And where is this progress you speak of?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:47 AM, December 04, 2007

"Don't let the door hit ya in your "productive" ass on the way outta here, sport."

Another fact-filled, reflective, thoughtful comment from jw. With the word "ass" thrown in to give it that little extra cachet.

You quote someone else's post, add absolutely nothing, but simply insult.

Way to go (again), sport.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:37 AM, December 04, 2007

Racine has even more ammo this time around, so I think his chances are improved. Douglas has accumulated some baggage this time around. A lot of his admnistration appointees are viewed as secretive, totalitarian and just mean. He has fumbled badly on several issues related to public employees and teachers. His environmental policies are being roundly chastized by the tree people. He says nothing good about Vermont at every opportunity. And the list continues.

The only turd in the field is Pollina, whose ego could suffer if Racine is serious, leading to Anthony coming in just to play spoiler and we'll have two more years of milktoast Jim.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:50 AM, December 04, 2007

I believe Doug Racine will be an excellent Governor and I support him. He will be more aggressive coming from behind than defending a lead. He was too cautious in 2002.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:51 AM, December 04, 2007

He'd get my vote over anyone else mentioned as running.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:59 AM, December 04, 2007

Neither Campbell or Galbraith are going to run -- look for an announcement from Campbell soon -- and contrary to Terri's conversation with him, Racine has been planning this for awhile.

He could be a good candidate, but he needs to seriously ramp up his act. Otherwise, it's two nerdy, lackluster, white guys.

Racine's comments in the Herald exemplify this perfectly: "I can't rule it out," he said. "I will think about it when I finish the work I am doing at the moment."

And, "I continue to be interested in being governor of the state of Vermont someday. With that encouragement I am thinking about it again."

Way to show that fire in the belly, Doug! C'mon, get some speech training, stand up straight, and show a little passion. Lose the whiny affect you had last time (although god knows Scudder was the whiniest candidate ever) and take the milquetoast on!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:20 AM, December 04, 2007

"...and contrary to Terri's conversation with him, Racine has been planning this for awhile."

No way. The Vermont press couldn't unearth the real story? I find that hard to believe--not.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:23 AM, December 04, 2007

Racine! As big a joke as Scudder and the rest of the big-taxers and "environmental" extremists that make up Vermont's "confederacy of dunces"! If you seriously think ANYONE can beat Jim Douglas, who will be perceived (correctly) as the one person that can stop the crazies from doing EVEN MORE harm (if possible) to the state, then you must be smoking some of Martha Davis's best stuff.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:08 AM, December 04, 2007

C'mon Bubba, you CAN'T love Jim Douglas. Even Dorothy Douglas can't love Jim Douglas.

Dick Snelling, now there was a Republican you could disagree with but still respect. But Douglas? He just does what his handlers tell him.

And what kind of an agenda is just stopping people? That's what you want? How about working with people? Proposing creative solutions? Staying ahead of your adversaries? All these guys can do is whine, stamp their feet, (in the case of Mike Smith, bully and threaten people,) and sing the same old song about a do-nothing legislature.

Racine's not nuts; he knows how to work with the business community as well as the other important constituencies. And he knows how to get things done.

Don't hang your hat on Douglas -- he'll go whatever way the wind blows.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:03 PM, December 04, 2007

This IS Vermont, so you have to go with half of a loaf, if you're lucky.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:25 PM, December 04, 2007

Doug Racine is a thoughtful and productive legislator. He did a great job as the Lt. Gov. balancing much of Dean's Republican agenda. He can also beat Douglas in a head-to-head race as he would have done the last time, if Con had stayed home. Politicians, especially Governors, accumulate their "enemies" and dilute their "friends." Douglas has reached the point of no return if he is challenged by a positive thinking candidate. Doug Racine is that candidate, but the challenge has to "begin sooner and not later."

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:15 PM, December 04, 2007

"Dean's Republican agenda"??? Like civil unions? Like anti-business attitudes that drove countless businesses out of state (see CSI Wholesale, Northeast Tool, etc.) because he always sided with the VPIRG wing-nuts? Are you a high school student?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:27 PM, December 04, 2007

Naw Bubba, just an old Vermonter who was estatic when Hoff won. While Dean is an interesting sort, he only became liberal and progressive when he hit the national stage. As governor, he was basically just another "good old boy" (With a name like Bubba you know about those guys), charter member of the Vermont business community.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:02 PM, December 04, 2007

I never heard of anyone in the "real" business community that thought much of Dean! (I'm not talking about organic tofu farms, etc.) I'm talking about businesses that employed lots of Vermonters, not those quaint hippy "enterprises!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:19 PM, December 04, 2007

I never heard of anyone in the "real" business community that thought much of Dean! (I'm not talking about organic tofu farms, etc.) I'm talking about businesses that employed lots of Vermonters

This is a joke, right?

Either way, it's seriously funny. Does Bill Stenger ring a bell? How about Husky Systems? IBM (ask John O'Kane about Dean's tenure as Governor)? Former Lake Champlain Chamber head Wayne Roberts, who worked for Reagan?

Holy crap, dude. I read these comments a lot, and that has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever seen here.

# Posted by:

odum | 5:32 PM, December 04, 2007

Howard Dean created the Vermont Economic Progress Council, which has awarded (wasted) tens of millions of dollars in business tax credits to most of the biggest businesses in the state.

He was indeed a good friend to business and I'm sure he would say so if asked.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:52 PM, December 04, 2007

Pollina - oh, yeah!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:57 PM, December 04, 2007

bubba said...

"This IS Vermont, so you have to go with half of a loaf, if you're lucky."

You're not a lucky fella, bubbles. You couldn't raise a couple of stale ends let alone half a loaf.

Vermont needs another one of your take back Vermont sequels like the World needs Rocky 47 - where Rocky takes on his toughest opponent yet - Incontinence - and gets decked in the 3rd when he runs outta Depends.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:44 PM, December 04, 2007

Anonymous said...
"Don't let the door hit ya in your "productive" ass on the way outta here, sport."

"Another fact-filled, reflective, thoughtful comment from jw. With the word "ass" thrown in to give it that little extra cachet."

"You quote someone else's post, add absolutely nothing, but simply insult."

Feel free to cough up one of your thoughtful, substantitive posts for purpose of comparison, sport.

That's what I thought.

Always a pleasure.
Way to go (again), sport.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:56 PM, December 04, 2007

""Dean's Republican agenda"??? Like civil unions? Like anti-business attitudes that drove countless businesses out of state (see CSI Wholesale, Northeast Tool, etc.) because he always sided with the VPIRG wing-nuts? Are you a high school student?"

Bubba, you dope. Dean didn't invent civil unions, the Vermont Supreme Court did. And the Legislature followed suit -- both Dems AND Repubs.

Dean was pro business. Much to the consternation of the Democratically-controlled Legislature that he had during much of his tenure. He didn't like VPIRG and VPIRG had no use for him, either. His environmental secretary quit because he wasn't "environmental" enough. Early in his tenure he fought the environmentalists to make sure the ski areas could pump the water they needed out of the rivers, for snowmaking. He rammed Husky through Act 250 faster than shit through a goose. Every business leader I know liked him.

Get it now?

Bubba, every once in a while you make a few good points. But you undermine your credibility completely when you argue make statements like the above.

Me, I wish we had Dean back. Politically, he wasn't much different from Douglas, but he got a shitload more done. Unlike Douglas, he did something called "governing." He knew exactly what was going on at all times in his Administration. He didn't leave his government in the hands of his handlers, like the absentee governor we have now.

Oh, and jwpoop, did I mention that you're an a-hole?

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:57 PM, December 04, 2007

Bubba:

I'm not one to agree with Mr. Hoffer, Mr. Odum, etc. but they are right on with their assessment of Howard Dean. He was a pro-business moderate when he was governing Vermont.

Which begs the question of why liberal Democrats/Progressives have such a hard time understanding Jim Douglas' electoral success? He's not too far from Dean on most policy positions. Moderate Democrats aren't at all uncomfortable voting for him, and independents like him.

The only difference is that he has an R after his name, so traditional Democratic core constituencies like the hard core environmentalists, pro-choicers, unions, conservation/preservationists are never going to support him, or even cut deals with him the way they would with Dean.

But moderate Democrats who aren't single-issue voters are fine with Douglas, and aren't going to buy the Democratic rhetoric about him. Likewise, moderate or blue dog Democrats in the Legislature don't buy it either. That's why Gaye and Peter couldn't manage to override either veto: They saw the both bills, especially H520, as pure politics, not policy, and sided with Douglas because he was on the right policy side of both.

You really do look badly uninformed when you make statements like "the business community never thought much of Dean."

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:56 PM, December 04, 2007

bubba said...
"Dean's Republican agenda"??? Like civil unions? Like anti-business attitudes that drove countless businesses out of state (see CSI Wholesale, Northeast Tool, etc.) because he always sided with the VPIRG wing-nuts? Are you a high school student?"

Clearly, you're still a few years shy of that level, bubbles.

Still more unsubstantiated bogus assertions with no supporting evidence from the brain-dead book ends.

If ya got a case, make it.

That's what I thought.

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:34 PM, December 04, 2007

Anonymous said...

"Oh, and jwpoop, did I mention that you're an a-hole?"

This must be one of those thoughtful, logical, factually-based arguments chock full of substance and devoid of personal attacks and name-calling you're always tellin' me about, sport.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:42 PM, December 04, 2007

"Feel free to cough up one of your thoughtful, substantitive posts for purpose of comparison, sport."

How about the one directly below yours of 7:56, sport? There's more information there than in all of your posts combined since you barged your charming way into theis blog a few weeks ago, sport.

I'd also point to the one below mine, from another poster, at 10:56.

Compare either one of those to your response to Bubba at 11:34. Not one attempt to refute his statement that Dean was anti-business. All you do is repeat Bubba's statement, then hurl several lines of insult, followed by the jerky remark "dismissed."

Where's the thoughtful, fact-based response from you, sport?

You haven't done anything but hurl insults in 3 weeks.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:38 AM, December 05, 2007

There is no way a democrat like myself is ever going to vote for Pollina - the Progressives have arrogantly denograted the Democrats for years.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:21 AM, December 05, 2007

JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...
Feel free to cough up one of your thoughtful, substantive posts for purpose of comparison, sport.

"How about the one directly below yours of 7:56, sport? There's more information there than in all of your posts combined since you barged your charming way into theis blog a few weeks ago, sport."

What about it? Precisely where is this factually-based evidence of which you speak?

That's what I thought.

All you've done in this post is the same thing you always do. You merely served up another heapin' helpin' of your ignorant, ill-informed opinion before hacking up another pathetic attempt to diss me for calling you on it.

"I'd also point to the one below mine, from another poster, at 10:56."

You, yourselves and bubbles can point out all the examples of your ignorant, ill-informed opinion all you want, sport. It didn't make it evidence then. It doesn't make it evidence now.

"Compare either one of those to your response to Bubba at 11:34. Not one attempt to refute his statement that Dean was anti-business."

Where's the evidence supporting "his statement that Dean is anti-business."?

There's nothing to refute. There's not one piece of evidence in that post to establish Dean is anti-business, sport. It's just another one of your baseless coalition of the clueless allegations with no supporting evidence or factual foundation to support it.

And once again, neither me or anyone else is under any obligation to disprove a case that you, yourselves and bubbles didn't make in the first place.

If any of you loons ever manage to cough up anything to refute, I'll be happy to refute it.

So far, you haven't and I haven't had the opportunity to swing the bat because you haven't thrown anything near the plate.

"All you do is repeat Bubba's statement, then hurl several lines of insult, followed by the jerky remark "dismissed."

No, I cite his post - just like I do yours - to give him an opportunity to demonstrate the fact that - like you - he's got nothing to offer but his ignorant, ill-informed opinion and that ain't evidence. It's not my fault you clowns keep hangin' yourselves with your own rope and proving my point.

Feel free to cough up one of your thoughtful, substantive posts for purpose of comparison, sport.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 9:17 AM, December 05, 2007

Madeleine Kunin was the most left-wing destructive gov this state has ever had, and if memory serves me correctly, Howard Dean as a rep supported everything she ever did or tried to do. Vermonters are still reeling from those years. Dean never did ANYTHING as gov to change the permanent stain of anti-business attitudes in Montpelier. Sure, he came up with business tax credits for outfits like Husky, but had to because otherwise no major company would set foot in the state! So don't tell me Dean was ever anything more than a temporary moderate out of dire necessity, because as soon as little Howie became a dimocrat big-shot, back came all of the left-wing idiocy.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:36 PM, December 05, 2007

jwcoop10 for governor!

He will run on a platform of bringing truth and civility back to VT politics.

His campaign slogan..."don't let the door hit ya in your "productive" ass on the way outta here, sport. Always a pleasure."

After all he really is a good boy just a little misunderstood.

Signed,

JW's mom

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:35 PM, December 05, 2007

Matt Dunne for Gov

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:12 PM, December 07, 2007

Pollina!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:48 PM, December 11, 2007