vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

11.16.2007

An interesting ranking

A Washington D.C. watchdog group -- Good Jobs First -- put out a report late this week that ranked states' use of online disclosure of corporate tax breaks and subsidies, procurement contracts and lobbying information. I know there are lots of rankings, but this one is interesting.

Vermont placed 18th. That might sound acceptable, but this organization using one tough scoring system. No grades based on a bell curve here. States scored points for meeting specific standards. As a result, Vermont's grade was a D+. Connecticut ranked first, but received only a B grade.

Here's the scores for Vermont's neighbors. New York ranked fourth with a B- grade. Maine came in 16th with a C-. Massachusetts was 22nd with a D. And New Hampshire ranked 47th with an F.

There's a page in the study that details Vermont's scores. Under the subsidy section, Vermont got a D-. The state also received a D- for the kind of lobbying information that's online. Here's what the report said lobbying.

Vermont provides online access to lobby disclosure information via an easy-to-use database .... but there's no full list of lobbyists or principle organizations, so the user must know a name to search. Financial information is very general and is often missing from lobbyist profiles, and there is no online issue disclosure.

Luckily, the information Vermont makes available online about procurement contracts pulled up the state's overall score. In that area, the state received a B. You ought to check it out. The state provides a lot of information at this site.

To review the entire study, click here: Good Jobs First.

--Nancy Remsen

posted by vt.Buzz | 5:09 PM |

Comments:

Seriously, are the Republicans in this state so scared of Peter Welch that they can't find anyone to run against him?

That's nuts.

At least the left in this state has a candidate for Governor - even if he is weak.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:39 PM, November 16, 2007

"this site" has no link.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:36 PM, November 16, 2007

One of the reasons VT scored so poorly on subsidy disclosure is that VEPC (the entity that awards business tax "incentives") does not disclose company specific performance data. The statute makes that information confidential, as if we don't have a right to know (VEPC only reports aggregated data). Several other states have adopted company specific disclosure requirements with no apparent adverse impacts on the businesses or the programs. VT should do the same.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:27 PM, November 16, 2007

In a separate study, however, Vermont ranked first in having the most blog postings by Mr. Hoffer.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:20 AM, November 17, 2007

"In a separate study, however, Vermont ranked first in having the most blog postings by Mr. Hoffer."

Zing....you make me laugh.

Is there anything Hoffer is not an expert on?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:26 AM, November 17, 2007

Only what Mr. Pollina pays him to be an expert on.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:35 AM, November 17, 2007

These personal attacks show that for the people who disagree with Doug Hoffer, winning is never about the triumph of a set of ideas. It’s about victory of the party, people, and players.

It really shows the pervasive anti-intellectualism among Hoffer's detractors. The contribution of fact or policy brings on a personal attack.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:59 AM, November 17, 2007

Wrong. Most people aren't anti-intellectual here, in my view. It's the constantly condescending, know-it-all, I'm-an-expert-on-everything, how-can-you-be-so-dumb tone of Mr. Hoffer's postings tha brings on the personal attacks against him.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:17 AM, November 17, 2007

Let's not also forget the fact that Hoffer is a paid political hack for the leftists in this state. No worse, no better than the lobbyists liberals love to hate. He manipulates data like an Enron or Blackwater lobbyist does to "prove" his point and influence legislators and voters. If he is criticized, well, this goes with the territory; sometimes this blubbering about picking on poor Doug sounds like Hillary whining because she's picked on because "she's a girl".

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:49 AM, November 17, 2007

"Wrong. Most people aren't anti-intellectual here, in my view. It's the constantly condescending..."

Well said. I suspect there are a number of well-educated well-spoken contributors here. I would turn the table and suggest Doug's condescending banter is directly intended to bring "victory of the party, people, and players". This is and has been the mode of the Progs from every account I have heard, read and witnessed.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:04 PM, November 17, 2007

"...for the people who disagree with Doug Hoffer, winning is never about the triumph of a set of ideas. It’s about victory of the party, people, and players"

and one more thing, if you boys can't play nice, Doug won't be able to come out and play with you anymore.

Doug's Mom

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:32 PM, November 17, 2007

Does it strike anyone as interesting that there is actually a lobby group out there sufficiently well funded to commission a study like this.

Transparency is great but you have to wonder if this is the best way for a group whose charter is: "... a national policy resource center for grassroots groups and public officials, promoting corporate and government accountability in economic development and smart growth for working families" to spend their time and money.

For those of you asking earlier exactly where is the fat in the system, IMO here is a group that seems to have found a way to live off it.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:04 PM, November 17, 2007

Except for the last post, not one entry after mine contained ANYTHING of substance related to the subject. So yes, I would have to agree with the person who said there is pervasive anti-intellectualism on this site.

Attacking me (or any messenger with contrary views & data) may be good sport for some (and common for the Limbaugh crowd), but most Americans are tired of it. They want to identify problems and solve them. That requires information, analysis, debate, and compromise. Exactly where do personal attacks fit into this scheme?

And if being able to look up a state statute makes one an "expert", then I guess you're right.

As for the question about the mission of Good Jobs First, I should think a report about public disclosure of information about tax breaks, lobbying, and state purchasing is exactly what "government accountability" is all about.

And as for "the fat in the system", they're not spending your money so why do you care?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:29 PM, November 17, 2007

"and common for the Limbaugh crowd"

This remark was inevitable. Anyone who doesn't like Hoffer's I'm-smarter-than-you lectures is assumed to be in the Limbaugh camp.

Nice partisan try, but wrong, Mr. Hoffer.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:57 PM, November 17, 2007

That kind of partisan remark proves that you're not an innocent "independent analyst" but a Prog cheerleader.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:59 PM, November 17, 2007

I like Hoffer's posts. They tend to be based in some sort of verifiable fact. This is a welcome departure from the mediocre banter contained in most posts.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:16 PM, November 17, 2007

"I like Hoffer's posts. They tend to be based in some sort of verifiable fact."

They cite a lot of data, which is good. But then he offers his own conclusion from the data and if you don't buy it, he basically implies that you're a dunce or a right-winger.

Very poor form.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:33 PM, November 17, 2007

Anonymous said...
"Wrong. Most people aren't anti-intellectual here, in my view. It's the constantly condescending, know-it-all, I'm-an-expert-on-everything, how-can-you-be-so-dumb tone of Mr. Hoffer's postings tha brings on the personal attacks against him."

10:17 AM, November 17, 2007

-------------------------------------------

Ah, yes, the ol' "He made me do it when he kept pointing what a clueless nitwit I am and why it's best for all parties concerned that I continue to remain an anonymous nitwit" song and dance.

The ever-popular, tried-and-true last refuge of the smoked gop who keeps finding himself to be Today's Special.

Ya know, sport, if you could even occasionally demonstrate an ability to distinguish your sorry wing-nut butt from your elbow, ya just might keep from getting torched so often, but, hey, you're the expert. You're ridin' the crest of a slump. Keep doin' what you're doin'.

Works for me.

You can show yourself out.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 6:53 PM, November 17, 2007

I can see why the novel-writing thing didn't work out for ya. Too bad. Anyway, see you at Leunig's. You'll be the one TAKING the order.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:22 PM, November 17, 2007

And I can see why you prefer to remain anonymous. To paraphrase Churchill, you have a great deal to be modest and wish to remain anonymous about.

Nice try, nitwit.

If no one takes your order you'll know it's me. That way, at least you'll be able to say you know something.

You're welcome.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 10:02 PM, November 17, 2007

The DC GOP playbook is always about attacking the messenger - whether based in truth or not.

What I have noticed here on this blog is Bubba and others attack Doug H but not his statements.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:21 AM, November 18, 2007

"And as for "the fat in the system", they're not spending your money so why do you care?"

Pehaps you can tell me the derfinition of "fat". If it's not my money being spent, does that mean it doesn't qualify as "fat".

I believe as I suggested the report was a great example of a fringe special interest lobbyist living off the fat of the system. No real value provided and I suspect there are many better things the time an money could have been directed towards...fat.

I am not surprised to have heard that comment from a lobbyist himself.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:28 AM, November 18, 2007

"The ever-popular, tried-and-true last refuge of the smoked gop who keeps finding himself to be Today's Special. "

"To paraphrase Churchill, you have a great deal to be modest and wish to remain anonymous about.

Nice try, nitwit.

If no one takes your order you'll know it's me. That way, at least you'll be able to say you know something. "

Huh? Is English your second language?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:31 AM, November 18, 2007

BTW - I HAVE offered up facts to Hoffer regarding states' taxations, manufacturing data, employment, etc. They have come from the state governments themselves, NAM, Chamber of Commerces, Employers such as Nissan, Toyota, even unions. However, if they do not provide the answers Hoffer wants, they are, of course, always wrong. Facts MUST show Vermont to be a low-tax state, because his employers are facing being thrown out of office for what they have done to this state.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:43 AM, November 18, 2007

"What I have noticed here on this blog is Bubba and others attack Doug H but not his statements."

Perhaps on this blog but overall not really true. Many have taken exception to his conclusions on many threads and been on the receiving end of DH's condesending tongue lashing. It's a little difficult to feel too bad for him.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:44 AM, November 18, 2007

"I believe as I suggested the report was a great example of a fringe special interest lobbyist living off the fat of the system. No real value provided and I suspect there are many better things the time an money could have been directed towards...fat."

1. It is not a "fringe" special interest group. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them fringe. In fact, they are very well known and respected all over the country.

2. "No real value provided" is obviously your opinion. That's different then a fact.

3. Many better things to do with the money: So now you are suggesting that you know best how EVERYONE should spend their money (including the foundations and others that fund them)? Wow.

4. Fat: Are you equally concerned about the "fat" in the private sector? If right wing business interests fund studies & reports, is that a waste of money? Or is it only studies & reports you don't like?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:36 PM, November 18, 2007

I like studies that are PAID FOR by private enterprises, left and right, just as I like radio and TV PAID FOR by private enterprises, left and right. As soon as government takes over, the data and opinions are unreliable. Why should I pay for XM or SIRIUS radio and then have to subsidize NPR, VPR that only a bunch of left-wing elitists listen to?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:05 PM, November 18, 2007

bubba said...
I like studies that are PAID FOR by private enterprises, left and right, just as I like radio and TV PAID FOR by private enterprises, left and right."

I'll bet you do. Based on what I've seen of your shtick so far, you haven't got a prayer without the likes of Exxon cooking the books.

Lord knows the facts aren't doin' ya any favors.

"As soon as government takes over, the data and opinions are unreliable."

Really? And the evidence supporting your assertion is.....?

That's what I thought.

Maybe it's in the pants pocket where Bremmer left that missing 10 billion he can't seem to track down.

Hey, it's not like you've got anything else to lose.

"Why should I pay for XM or SIRIUS radio and then have to subsidize NPR, VPR that only a bunch of left-wing elitists listen to?

In other words, you don't like being confused with the facts.

Stop the presses.

You should pay for the same reason I'm forced to pay for unnecessary wars based on bogus evidence I don't support.

Give what they blow in Iraq on any given week before breakfast to every PBS TV/Radio/Internet Operation in this Country and they'd never have to hold another fundraiser, the Country would have a better-educated citizenry and improved National Security.

Ignorant, ill-informed, knuckle-draggin' nitwits such as the likes you would be stuffed but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 2:18 PM, November 18, 2007

Doug Hoffer use the phrase: "right wing business interests"

There you go. Doug's bias is revealed.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:40 PM, November 18, 2007

Anonymous said...
Doug Hoffer use the phrase: "right wing business interests"

"There you go. Doug's bias is revealed."

It does, eh? Well, if you're aware of some left wing business interests who might feel slighted by Hoffer's failure to mention them, at least they've got the likes of you to break their fall and soothe their delicate sensibilities.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 2:57 PM, November 18, 2007

jwcoop10 said....

"Ignorant, ill-informed, knuckle-draggin' nitwits such as the likes you would be stuffed but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."

"Nice try, nitwit."

You are quite the charmer... you sure are convincing me to take your points seriously.

Were you getting lonely under your rock?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:01 PM, November 18, 2007

Yep, Doug's Mini-me wannabe has been making converts from the moment he dropped in.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:40 PM, November 18, 2007

"You are quite the charmer... you sure are convincing me to take your points seriously."

Gee, is this gonna affect our Thanksgiving Dinner plans?

You can imagine how much that troubles me. Well, you're gonna have to do it anyway.

Anonymous said...
"Yep, Doug's Mini-me wannabe has been making converts from the moment he dropped in."

Gee, that's swell.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:32 PM, November 18, 2007

He really thinks he's humorous.

Sad.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:59 AM, November 19, 2007

I wonder if Douglas thinks he maybe should have taken those employees out of that Bennington building a little sooner? He kind of left them in there with these microbes. Another compassionate conservative? Glad the legislators got them out!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:16 AM, November 19, 2007

That's Jimmy. Douglas, like all gops and bill o'reilly, is always looking out for all the common folk with summer homes in the Hamptons.

Then again, if the building kills them he won't have to fire them.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 9:12 AM, November 19, 2007

Anonymous said...
He really thinks he's humorous.

Sad.

4:59 AM, November 19, 2007

---------------------------------------

Not as long as I've got the anonymous, coalition of the clueless likes of you to make me laugh and lift my spirits.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 9:24 AM, November 19, 2007

Anonymous said...
"and common for the Limbaugh crowd"

"This remark was inevitable. Anyone who doesn't like Hoffer's I'm-smarter-than-you lectures is assumed to be in the Limbaugh camp."

Nah, it was the road rash on your knuckles that did ya in, sport.

If you've got evidence to the contrary, feel free provide it.

If not, tell it to the schmuck living in your mirror.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 9:39 AM, November 19, 2007

"I wonder if Douglas thinks he maybe should have taken those employees out of that Bennington building a little sooner?"

Dream on. If some legislators hadn't called for a deadline to get the employees out of the Bennington building, Douglas would have kept ignoring the issue and have his henchpeople blame it on employee bitching and moaning. They should make the governor work in that building if they put those workers back in there.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:18 AM, November 19, 2007

Anonymous said...

"They should make the governor work in that building if they put those workers back in there."

Ah, the ol' canary in the coal mine routine, eh?

Now there's a job Douglas and staff just might be qualified for.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 12:14 PM, November 19, 2007

My lord this BFP blog is really starting to suck, bit time. Just a matter of time before it goes the way of "Hall Monitor" and "PoliticsVT".

Maybe someone should commission a study of the average lifespan of a political blog. Here in VT, I have to guess it is two years or less. When is the 2nd birthday party of the Buzz, anyway?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:47 PM, November 19, 2007

It was already getting bad, but then some schmuck named jwcoop decided to start dropping his birdpoop in it. He doesn't add a thing. He just makes nasty remarks that only he himself finds funny.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:42 PM, November 19, 2007

Anonymous said...
"If you've got evidence to the contrary, feel free provide it."

"There is absolutely no logic or common sense in this remark, you idiot."

Well, that's never stopped ya before, sport. Clearly, you're not gonna let it slow ya down this time, either.

Hey, I never said you weren't diligent. Just dim.

Anonymous said...
"If you've got evidence to the contrary, feel free provide it."

"You implied that anyone who doesn't like Hoffer's posts must be in the Limbaugh crowd. Wrong. I don't like Hoffer's posts and I despise Limbaugh. Hoffer's a Pollina-loving Prog. He thinks like a Prog and he talks like a Prog. Dems have no use for that, and we have no use for Limbaugh, either. There's your "evidence."

No, it's merely your ignorant, ill-informed, coalition of the clueless opinion. That's not evidence.

What's more, I didn't imply anything of the sort. To the contrary, I said I've seen nothing that would lead me to conclude anything but you've made it abundantly clear that neither you or bubba have a frickin' clue what you're talkin' about and the next position either one of you advocate with any basis in fact or supporting evidence will be the first.

I didn't imply a damned thing, sport. I said it.

Am I goin' too fast for ya, sport? Do ya need me to say it again?

I'll catch ya next time. Clearly, you'll provide me ample opportunity. You're like the bus, if ya miss one, there'll be another one along soon enough.

The only thing you've manage to establish is that you don't like Hoofer's views, his manner or him handing you loons your empty heads on a regular basis.

That's never been at issue.

Your ability to factually or logically refute his arguments or construct any of your own, on the other hand,.... not so much.

Moreover, if I've said anything pro-Pollina with respect to him running for Governor or any other elective office, feel free to produce it.

As always, Hoffer can speak for himself but from my perspective, the less the likes of you and bubba think of me the better I feel about things.

As reverse barometers go, you're in a league of your own.

I can always count on the likes of you two to lift my spirits.

You're very thoughtful that way.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 12:54 AM, November 20, 2007

Is jwpoop really a drunk Freyne?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:23 AM, November 20, 2007

bubba said...

"Is jwpoop really a drunk Freyne?"

Clearly, I've overestimated you.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:07 AM, November 20, 2007

Has anyone paid attention to jwcoop10 posting times? It is seemingly unending through out the day ...4AM, 5AM, 12PM, 12AM....

Questions:

1... jw, do you ever sleep?
2... jw, do you have a life?
or 3... jw, are you a group of "wing-nuts" that have collectively just crawled out of the woodwork?

In any event you are a real charmer.

And just so you do know, I won't be coming over for Thanksgiving.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:36 AM, November 20, 2007

Do you have a point?

That's what I thought.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:39 AM, November 20, 2007

hey jwcoop10...you sure managed to clear this board quick. Nice job Champ.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:01 PM, November 20, 2007

That's mighty sweet of ya to say, sport, but as I scroll down the page, apart from me and you, all I see is 40-somethin' posts from doug hoffer, bubba and - assuming you're not the only one too shy, unimaginative or stoneless to come up with a handle - a couple other anonymous posters dating back before my arrival at this little shindig.

So, in light of those facts, precisely which anonymous poster did I run off, sport?

That's what I thought.

Ya know, you can start tryin' anytime now, little buddy. Like I keep tellin' ya, it'd be a refreshing change of pace to actually break a sweat.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:39 PM, November 20, 2007

Clearly, they let inmates at the state hospital have access to the Internet. That's the only explanation for the ravings of jwpoop10.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:43 PM, November 20, 2007

Come on, now. It's closing time at the bar and clearly jcoop is drunk and in no position to drive himself home. Some responsible adult needs to come down to the bar and take him home and let him sleep it off.

Poor guy. I remember my first beer, too.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:49 PM, November 20, 2007

Anonymous said...
Come on, now. It's closing time at the bar and clearly jcoop is drunk and in no position to drive himself home. Some responsible adult needs to come down to the bar and take him home and let him sleep it off.

Poor guy. I remember my first beer, too.

8:49 PM, November 20, 2007
------------------------------------------

Gee, that's swell. At least you remember somethin' you can talk to your imaginary anonymous friends about.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 9:51 PM, November 20, 2007

"One of the reasons VT scored so poorly on subsidy disclosure is that VEPC (the entity that awards business tax "incentives") does not disclose company specific performance data."

Back to the thread, if anyone's interested. If I'm not mistaken, under the reformed VEGI program (that I believe Mr. Hoffer had a hand in writing the reforms for) the companies get payments only after they meet their goals of hiring new workers.

How much disclosure should be required? I guess that's the question I'd like answered.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:41 PM, November 20, 2007

"...assuming you're not the only one too shy, unimaginative or stoneless to come up with a handle "

Let's see..hmmm...an anonymous posting or a posting under a "handle". Isn't that exactly the same thing you idiot. Anonymous!

How long did it take you to think up you alias and then practice so you could repeatedly spell it correctly? I assume quite some time since you have only popped up recently.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:29 AM, November 21, 2007

You people should leave my wittle jwpoop alone!

Can't you tell he's a "special" boy?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:35 AM, November 21, 2007

Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "An interesting ranking":

"How long did it take you to think up you alias and then practice so you could repeatedly spell it correctly? I assume quite some time since you have only popped up recently."

Well, little buddy, seein' how you've been around here so much longer than I have and the best you can muster up is anonymous, more time isn't gonna help ya figure it out.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 8:39 AM, November 21, 2007

You didn't address the issue: you criticize others for posting anonymously and then you create a fictitious handle so you can spew your slime anonymously also.

Hypocrite.

"Always a pleasure."

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:38 AM, November 21, 2007

As opposed to employing ones dazzling imagination to come up with anonymous.

Nice try, shmendrik.

If you've got evidence that my screen name is fictitious, then by all means, feel free to present it.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that you weren't named for your daddy like his daddy before him.

Christ, even the 10th-rate likes of you could come up with anonymous-3rd class.

Keep those cards and letters comin', kiddo.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:31 AM, November 21, 2007

Anonymous said...
"Dubie must be smoking a lot of high-test doobie if he thinks we're winning in Iraq. As for Bubba's Limbaugh musings, please consider the source."

Ya mean the recently-resurgent Afghanistan Opium fields source?

Yet more evidence of Bush policy paying unforeseen dividends to Dubie, opium/hash heads and heroin addicts everywhere.

He's so prolific.

How could anybody not like Barbara Bush's little man?

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:40 AM, November 21, 2007

That's sweet of ya to say, sport, but you don't need my help on that front.

It's the fizzle that sells the fake.

All I do is put Now Showing on the Marquee over your heads. No heavy lifting whatsoever.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:49 AM, November 21, 2007

"That's sweet of ya to say, sport, but you don't need my help on that front.
It's the fizzle that sells the fake.
All I do is put Now Showing on the Marquee over your heads. No heavy lifting whatsoever.
Always a pleasure."

??

Once again it appears jwbipolar is responding to a voice that spoke only inside his own head.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:49 PM, November 21, 2007