vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

1.29.2008

Dean v. Kunin

Tomorrow's Statehouse drama will feature a showdown between former Gov. Madeleine Kunin and Howard Dean. They will each take a different side in the debate over whether Vermont should go to a four-year term for governor, and perhaps throw some legislative seats into the mix too.

Kunin has presented her point of view at a couple of public sessions. She's for the four-year term because she says you just get going with things and you have to go through another election.

At a November 2006 debate, Kunin said: "Most big issues take time. If you're always thinking of the next election it's very hard to do that."

She cited the Act 200 planning law, which passed while she was governor. "If there had been a longer period of time, it would have been a better law," she said.

In past debates, Kunin's verbal sparring partner has been University of Vermont political science professor Frank Bryan. This time, she's got a fellow former governor, who's looking at the issue with a national as well as a Montpelier perspective.

In a preview of tomorrow's testimony before the Senate Government Operations Committee, here's what Dean has to say on the issue:

Over the last four years I have flown over 2 million miles, visiting every
state in the union, most of them on multiple occasions. Among the many things I
learned since I left the governor’s office to run for president and eventually
to become chairman of the Democratic National Committee is that there is no
place like home. Vermont is among the most friendly, politically
responsible, fiscally well-managed states in America. Vermonters are more
engaged in the process of self governing, with all its warts, than almost
anywhere else in America. And Vermonters are less cynical about their own
government than anywhere else I have been. ...

For that reason I have concluded that Vermont ought to keep our
two-year term for governor and for the Legislature. It is incredibly
tempting to get rid of 50 percent of our political campaigns by only having them
every four years. All those horrible ads, the long-winded speeches. All that
money that could be spent elsewhere. The truth is that four year campaigns would
only begin earlier and be even more expensive.

But it is so hard to get anything done in two years.

The truth is we get more done faster in Montpelier than in other states
because of the two-year term. We are held responsible for our election promises
in two years, and we usually deliver. Examples include civil unions, Act
250 under Deane Davis, the Bottle Bill, Pay As You Go highway funding — which
has kept Vermont out of the enormous debt problems many states have — and school
funding equalization, which 26 states have been ordered to do by their courts
and only two have complied, including Vermont. The truth is Vermont is
well-governed. We tend to be less partisan. Our voters are closer to our
governments than in virtually any other state in the union.

...
We are better off in Vermont because we are not like
everyone else. We ought to keep what we have.

...

Vermont stands out as a state in which our people are civil,
thoughtful, neighborly, politically well informed, and most importantly
respectful of the notion of a common good. This is an extraordinary place to
live, non-withstanding the normal tendency of all human beings to focus more on
what we want than on what we have. We ought to keep Vermont Vermont.

- Terri Hallenbeck

posted by vt.Buzz | 4:51 PM |

Comments:

"Vermont stands out as a state in which our people are civil,
thoughtful, neighborly, politically well informed, and most importantly
respectful of the notion of a common good"

Clearly he has not been reading these boards. The take away here is there couldn't be a place less open minded or more tied to partisan agendas.

I like 4 year terms. It lessens the wasteful politics.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:45 AM, January 30, 2008

I have never seen, or lived in a state more partisan than what passes for Vermont today. As for Dean's comment "there's no place like home", why doesn't he follow his heart and go back to NY City (bring a few more of your flatlander friends like Bernie, Madeleine, etc with you)? And maybe a few of those treasonous scumbags that want to take over Vermont's National Guard in today's paper.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:57 AM, January 30, 2008

I’ve had the pleasure of traveling to every major city, and every state in this country, and have traveled extensively throughout the world. When my travel time was over, I settled in Vermont. I can’t speak to the changes that a four year term would bring, but I sure can echo Governor Dean’s position that Vermont is by far the best and most civil state in the country.

Too often we focus on the negatives, and harp on problem that we think are unique to Vermont. They aren’t. In fact, based on my experiences, I think Vermont does a much better job of dealing with problems, and we do it in a much friendlier way.

Let’s stop once in a while and smell the roses!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:03 AM, January 30, 2008

As an old Vermonter, I say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

2 year terms have worked well for a couple of centuries.

Leave it at 2 year terms.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:05 AM, January 30, 2008

"As an old Vermonter, I say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Here are some famous quotes advocating the status quo:

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." ...…from a Western Union internal memo, 1876

"Everything that can be invented has been invented.“…Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, US Office of Patents, 1899

"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."....Ken Olson, President, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp. (DEC), 1977)

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. …...Charles Darwin

Only Charles Darwin really figured it out.. Change is inevitable.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:53 AM, January 30, 2008

And term limits were all the rage once, right? Floated primarily by the GOP, and then abandoned by the very same party. This idea will sound good for about a year and then we'll become disinterested. Move on legislature. There's much bigger fish to fry then this BS.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:07 AM, January 30, 2008

Did Charles Darwin say that EVERY proposed change has to be implemented?

No.

Study your evolutionary theory. It shows that most changes (biological mutations) don't survive -- because they aren't advantageous and are often disadvantageous.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:41 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember New Coke?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:42 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Poloroid?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:47 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Scudder?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:56 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember that take back Vermont trash?

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:01 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Martha?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:39 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Tarrant?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:39 AM, January 30, 2008

Change for change sake is foolish.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:40 AM, January 30, 2008

How are 4-year terms merely change for change sake, little nameless fella?

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:43 AM, January 30, 2008

How are they good for anything, dimwitted little troll?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:51 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Brock?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:51 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Dwyer?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:52 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember Greg Parke?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:52 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember clueless mcclaughry?

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:54 AM, January 30, 2008

Remember when Jim Douglas wasn't living off the public's dime? Yeah, me neither.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:55 AM, January 30, 2008

Nice try, punk.

How's that evidence hunt comin' for ya, little nameless nitwit?

That's what I thought.

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:56 AM, January 30, 2008

Thank the good Lord McClaughry has been marginalized to such a degree that even the morning radio ads he buys are laughable and, as Mr. Coop likes to say, "dismissed!" Must be hard for McClaughry to begin seeing the writing on the wall. Although I doubt he can get away from the mirror long enough to see the wall.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:59 AM, January 30, 2008

That's Mrs. Coop to you!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:07 PM, January 30, 2008

Here is the answer.....forget Dunne. Forget Campbell. I suggest a grass roots movement to draft JW as the Dem candidate for Governor.

Such an eloquent, know-it-all, people-person should do well under the Dome. He could clean up all of our problems easaily in his first of many 2 year terms and still have time to amuse us with his board postings.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:07 PM, January 30, 2008

The councilors at the group home have told JW that he can't leave the padded room.

That percludes a run for governor.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:51 PM, January 30, 2008

Anonymous said...

"The councilors at the group home have told JW that he can't leave the padded room."

Ah, yes, always a sure sign the evidence hunt is going nowhere fast for the strom-shillin' brokebrain mountain boys.

No case, no clue, no class.

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 3:44 PM, January 30, 2008

"Ah, yes, always a sure sign the evidence hunt is going nowhere fast for the strom-shillin' brokebrain mountain boys'

Ahhh... the usual and predictable reply from Mr. 'I have no facts' Coop.

Yawn.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:03 PM, January 30, 2008

jwcoop10 said...

"That's Mrs. Coop to you!"

Gee, and it only took ya the better part of 3 months to come up with it, too.

Who did it for ya?

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 4:04 PM, January 30, 2008

Anonymous said...
Ah, yes, always a sure sign the evidence hunt is going nowhere fast for the strom-shillin' brokebrain mountain boys'

"Ahhh... the usual and predictable reply from Mr. 'I have no facts' Coop."

Ya mean like the fact that I'm Doug Hoffer or Ian whoeverthehell and you still have no case, no clue, no evidence and no name, little spineless strom-shill fella?

That's what I thought.

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 4:09 PM, January 30, 2008

Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "Dean v. Kunin":

Here is the answer.....forget Dunne. Forget Campbell. I suggest a grass roots movement to draft JW as the Dem candidate for Governor.

Such an eloquent, know-it-all, people-person should do well under the Dome. He could clean up all of our problems easaily in his first of many 2 year terms and still have time to amuse us with his board postings."

How ya gonna fill the other 20 hours of your days, little fella?

How many points will I have beat you two red-state reptiles by, little nameless nitwit?

15? 20? 35?

In other words, ya still got bupkis?

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 4:16 PM, January 30, 2008

JW...ditto.

Ya is actually you.
Fella is actually fellow.
Gnna is actually going to.
There is a 'g' at the end of draggin'

Idiot.

I particularly like your 4:04PM posting today attacking a posting you made earlier at 12:07PM on Jan 30. Not the first time you have done this pal.

Do you even know what time zone you are in?

Your pal...Anonymous

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:26 PM, January 30, 2008

looser.

dismissed.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:04 PM, January 30, 2008

"Anonymous said...
looser.

dismissed."

Very nice. ....Stealing a page from the JW playbook.

BTW I believe you meant to call me a loser.

Your pal...Anonymous

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:58 AM, January 31, 2008

"Don't you go changin', little fella. I loathe you just the way you are."

Thanks. Your Valentine's Day card is in the mail.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:58 AM, January 31, 2008

"Anonymous said...

"looser.

"dismissed."

"Very nice. ....Stealing a page from the JW playbook."

"BTW I believe you meant to call me a loser."

Actually, little fella, it appears that you're calling yourself a loser or "looser" if you prefer.

You seem particularly conflicted this morning , ms pell.

Trouble on brokebrain mountain?

Your pal, jw.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 10:04 AM, January 31, 2008

Panties in a bunch this morning, Miss Nellie? Trouble on Brokeback Mountain?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:16 AM, January 31, 2008

You sure told me! Did that come with you sticking out your tongue at him/me?

Just answer his question. Actually just answer any question you have been asked ...ever.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:46 PM, January 31, 2008

jw said:

" . . . no class"

Apparently, there are no mirrors in your house.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:55 PM, January 31, 2008

"How ya gonna fill the other 20 hours of your days, little fella?"

You're the one who spends his entire day posting on this blog, little fella.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:57 PM, January 31, 2008

Anyone care to imagine the conversation at Coop's dinner table?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:43 PM, January 31, 2008

"I can answer your questions. I have answered your questions."

Really, like the one about how JFK was about to end the war in Vietnam before he was shot?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:05 PM, January 31, 2008

"Of course, like Grandma said,"

No, it's "as" Grandma said.

Look it up.

"Don't feel badly, little fella"

No, it's don't feel "bad."

Look it up.

Did your Grandma see you comin' a mile away, too?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:12 PM, January 31, 2008

Anonymous said...
jw said:

" . . . no class"

"Apparently, there are no mirrors in your house."

Nah, there's no morons in our house. We've got plenty of mirrors.

Dismissed.

1:55 PM, January 31, 2008

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 10:18 AM, February 01, 2008

Anonymous said...

I can answer your questions. I have answered your questions.

"Really, like the one about how JFK was about to end the war in Vietnam before he was shot?"

That bullet's in the chamber, chump. All you've gotta do is produce your evidence that I'm Doug Hoffer and show how FDR went to war with Japan and Germany just to get us out to the Depression he'd caused and was keeping us in when Japan and Germany were no threat to us, little fella.

Dazzle me, little dude.

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 10:56 AM, February 01, 2008

Anonymous said...

""How ya gonna fill the other 20 hours of your days, little fella?""

"You're the one who spends his entire day posting on this blog, little fella."

Evidently, you can add count to the list of things you can't do, little nameless-nitwit fella.

If one was to tally up the number of posts on this thread from me and from anonymous, which would be the greater number?

That's what I thought.

Dismissed.

1:57 PM, January 31, 2008

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:16 AM, February 01, 2008

"That bullet's in the chamber, chump."

Right. "I have proof of my statement. I just don't feel like showing you."

Right.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:37 PM, February 01, 2008

"I can but won't."

Right. Sure. I "can" prove that Kennedy was about to end Vietnam before he got shot, but I absolutely, positively, won't prove it. I won't. No matter how much you ask me. I won't. Why? I don't know. I just won't. I woooooooooon't.

Yeah. Sure thing, jw. Everyone believes ya on that one.

Hey, how's that bullying thing goin on the playground?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:36 PM, February 02, 2008

Anything but actually offering evidence that Kennedy was about to get us out of Vietnam before he got shot.

It's pathetic.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:08 PM, February 02, 2008

Back to the original subject, Dean and Kunin on 2 or 4-year terms: who really gives a damn about WHAT these two idiots think. After what they did to Vermont, it's no wonder Kunin skulked out of the state in the middle of the night, and Dean the same. Jeezum crow, what a pair of losers!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:30 PM, February 03, 2008

This comment has been removed by the author.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 12:59 PM, February 03, 2008

I do.

I think Kunin's right on this one, and I don't understand Dean.

You can't accomplish anything good for the State in two years. All you're concerned about is, will I get elected again in two years. Douglas's perma-campaign and absentee governance is perfect evidence of why Dean should be advocating for 4 year terms.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:25 AM, February 06, 2008

RE "You can't accomplish anything good for the State in two years"

Douglas defeated Dean's empty commuter trains to nowhere in his first two weeks. Even as a Democrat I applaud that effort and it didn't take 4yrs. I want a vote every 2 yrs.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:41 AM, February 08, 2008