Sure - replace the state legislature for openers.
 

"Is there any hope of replacing salaries in the $80,000 range"

At the rate that Douglas is putting "press secretaries" on the government payroll, I'm sure that these jobs will be replaced in no time.
 

jwpoop10 seems to have all the answers
 

Only to his own questions. Like when he asks a question and then immediately writes, "thought so."
 

We need to find some way of spinning Windham County off into their own orbit - and to take their legislators with them. Only then will we have any prayer of getting this state back on the right track.
 

Get rid of Sanders - that'll do the trick.
 

When you have a Senator like Sanders, who consistently gets zero ratings from business groups, small and large, when you have a legislature so far left it sometimes make San Francisco look conservative, when you have the highest tax rate in the country, when you treat the state's largest private employer like garbage (yes, that means YOU, Bernie!), and when your Senate leadership casually try to break a contract with the state's top (and cleanest) energy producer, well, gee, don't you think businesses might start thinking about greener pastures? Oh well, maybe we can replace those $80,000 jobs with another quaint little B & B!
 

As reported on WCAX(see below).... You can poke holes at it's validity all you want but it's just one more in a continued stream of reports with the same conclusion. The Qimondo announcement is simply another in the series of businesses that have left the state.

Everyone can believe the "facts" people like D Hoffer post rationalizing things are fine here but the basic proof is businesses are voting with their feet and leaving VT. On this path the state is headed towards a financial train wreck.
------------------------------------

Study Gives Vermont Worst Economic Rating

Washington, D.C. - December 17, 2007

Which state has the worst economic rating in the country? According to the American Legislative Exchange Council-- Vermont does. A new report puts the Green Mountain State dead last in a ranking of all 50 states.

According to the report, it's because Vermont has some of the highest taxes in the country-- personal income, business, estate and property taxes. In addition, the ALEC cites a high minimum wage and rising workers comp costs. The study looked at 16 variables that impact the migration of people and investment capital.
 

JWCoop10 said...
It's always nice to hear the "take back Vermont trash" perspective - ignorant and ill-informed as it is - from bubbles and his invisible anonymous legion-of-lunatics supporters.

First of all, if you don't like Sanders, get yourself a qualified candidate and vote him out of office.

That's what those of us who've seen enough of Douglas's song and dance are going to have to do.

Why should it be any different for Bernie's coalition of the clueless critics?

That's what I thought.

I've got news for you nitwits. Both of ya.

Your nitwit-nonsense act didn't fly when Ruthie Dwyer and her Tunbridge Taliban supporters got smoked twice within the past decade.

Moreover, there's no evidence whatsoever that your take back Vermont trash shtick has gained any supporters lately.

Therefore, unless you can supply something even remotely resembling supporting evidence for your bogus assertions, stuff a sock in it.

Get yourselves some new nitwit-nonsense gop-slop to sling.

Dismissed.

7:51 AM, December 18, 2007
 

The "American Legislative Exchange Council" is a far right wing group of Republicans who are bent on pushing legislation that favours big business and rollbacks environmental regulations.

They are hardly a credible source.
 

Maybe Douglas's brother-in-law can replace the illegals on his farm with some out of work Qimonda workers.
 

"They are hardly a credible source."

Think about this. Why would so many research groups all have this "thing" about ganging up on poor little VT? It's a tiny state with 600,000 people in a remote part of New England. Insignificant in the scheme of things. Exactly why would they all feel compelled to attack it time after time? There is no logical reason. How many times does the marketplace have to tell you there is a problem before you listen? The first mistake any business makes (and like it or not the State is a business)is to not listen to what the market is telling it. You are making that mistake and the reason is clear as you said. It has no credibility because as you say from a partisan point of view it is "a far right wing group of Republicans". Please prove that statement and that their intent is to harm VT.

Clearly Qimonda has a view and has voted with their feet.
 

Qimonda lost $374 million is the third quarter of 2007 and Infineon has been trying to dump them for more than a year. This is not a "we hate Vermont" company move, it's a consolidation in order to save the business.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/qimonda-loss-widens-dram-prices/story.aspx?guid=%7BFA62C59E-DB95-4ACC-8CFE-5D28E748EB39%7D&siteid=msn
 

"This is not a "we hate Vermont" company move, it's a consolidation in order to save the business."

Don't you think they would have stayed here if it was profitable for them to do so? Clearly they didn't move to lose more money.

With all due respect you guys just don't get it.
 

That is an overly simplistic view of how global business operates.

RAM prices dropped by more than 50% and the value of the Euro compared to the dollar caused a $374 million loss in just ONE quarter.

That's $374 million in one quarter. That loss impacted Infineon's results and they posted a $420 million loss.

Just a month ago, Qimondo layed off 300 people in Dresden. They also stopped all 200mm wafer usage and invested in a new Singapore facility.

There is simply no way you can paint Vermont as a being the bad guy here. Even triangle park is losing jobs.
 

Quimonda went to NC. Omya took its high paying jobs to Ohio. Chamberlain Machine is going to NH. Metrogroup moved Vermont jobs to Iowa. Weidmann's expansion is happening in Switzerland.... Not China. We're competing with other states for these jobs, and we're losing.

Is there any hope of replacing salarys of 80K? Not so long as this legislature continues to hunt high income earners into extiction with their "hate/soak the rich" policies. Honestly, if you made an salary above the income sensitivity level in VT, and saw that Symington and Shumlin are calling for higher taxes for expanded health care benefits, higher taxes for roads and bridges, higher taxes for lightbulb police, higher income taxes for education, and their bullseyes for getting this revenue are targeted SQUARELY ON YOUR WALLET, would you in your right mind move here for the privilege of getting economically gang raped by these people? As an individual or a business, would you stay here?

This is why states that declare themselves open for business do so by first cutting the marginal tax rate. New Mexico did this in 2002. Rhode Island did it in 2006. Gov. Patrick, Symington's hero, touts a 5.5% top tax rate, I beleive. If income tax for education passes, we will have the highest marginal tax rate in the country.

If you tax something, you get less of it. If you tax the bejesus out of 80K jobs, you'll end up with less of them. Yet, at the same time, these are the people our legislature is banking on to fund our 4 billion plus (and plus and plus) state budget. Good luck with that!
 

The poor figures Qimonda has presented for its financial year 2007 reflect the price pressure in the DRAM market after all, the company saw average selling prices decline by 53 percent during the past year. The adverse effects of the strong euro or the weak dollar respectively added up to the awkward situation the company has gotten into.

However, it is not only the market conditions alone that Qimonda has to overcome to find its way back to profitability. It is also its internal cost structure that has to improve. "Qimonda's operational performance was even worse than we expected," says analyst Guenther Hollfelder from UniCredit, pointing out that that the memory maker's productivity is not as high as it should be to become competitive.
 

Omya didn't leave Vermont, it just consolidated corporate management located in Atlanta, Proctor, and Montreal to Ohio.

Which, BTW is where Jim Reddy, president of Omya, grew up.
 

"Omya didn't leave Vermont, it just consolidated corporate management located in Atlanta, Proctor, and Montreal to Ohio."

Again, with all due respect, you can rationalize it any way you want but the fact is more are moving out than are moving in. Get beyond personlizing the discussion. No one is saying VT is bad or that we have all made bad choices living here. The fact that needs to be addressed is how do we get good companies to make their commitment to our state.
 

Anonymous said...

"They are hardly a credible source."

"Think about this. It's a tiny state with 600,000 people in a remote part of New England."

Which just might have something to do with IBM's decision to focus on Fishkill, but, hey. Don't let the facts stand in your way, shmendrik. Ya never have before.

Nice try.

If "so many research groups all have this "thing" about ganging up on poor little VT?", why have you only cited one easily-shredded, wingnut-nonsense site, little fella?

That's what I thought.

In other words, ya got bupkis.

"Insignificant in the scheme of things."

No, that would be the bogus take back Vermont, nitwit-nonsense you spew.


Exactly why would they all feel compelled to attack it time after time? There is no logical reason. How many times does the marketplace have to tell you there is a problem before you listen?"

Who says there's not a problem, little fella. The problem is "wing-nut trash site" citin' morons spewin' factually-unsupported allegations with no foundation as though they'd established a cause and effect relationship when they've done no such thing.

"The first mistake any business makes (and like it or not the State is a business)is to not listen to what the market is telling it."

Ya mean like nobody's buyin' this wing-nut nonsense of yours, little fella?


You are making that mistake and the reason is clear as you said. It has no credibility because as you say from a partisan point of view it is "a far right wing group of Republicans". Please prove that statement and that their intent is to harm VT."

Ah, so you, yourselves and bubbles are saying it from a non-partisan point of view, eh?

Nice try. No sale.

No, that would be you, yourselves and bubbles.

Actually, I say it on a factual basis.

You, yourselves, bubbles and the rest of your coalition of the clueless compatriots on the other hand, not so much.

"Clearly Qimonda has a view and has voted with their feet."

No, clearly you've provided no evidence to support your claim as to just why they're leaving and that's really the only relevant issue here.

I realize you have difficulties with reading comprehension amongst other things so I'll spell it out for ya again.

No one is disputing the fact that Qimonda is leaving.

The dispute is over the reason as to just why they're leaving.

To paraphrase the Judge who summarily tossed the infamous Billo/Murdo suit against Al Franken some years ago, Once again, your arguments have no merit or foundation, factually, legally or journalistically.

Moreover, to paraphrase the Bard of Avon, the gop-slop nonsense you, yourselves and bubbles consistently traffic in amounts to nothing more than a tale told by idiots. Full of Sound and Fury signifying nothing.

In other words, you're a gop in good standing.

Dismissed.
 

Anonymous said...

That is an overly simplistic view of how global business operates.

RAM prices dropped by more than 50% and the value of the Euro compared to the dollar caused a $374 million loss in just ONE quarter.

"That's $374 million in one quarter. That loss impacted Infineon's results and they posted a $420 million loss."

Still, ya gotta give credit where credit is due. No one has done more to stregthen the dollar than Bush.

Too bad it's the Canadian Dollar.

Nevertheless, he is the loon who saved the Loonie. Give 'im his props.

"Just a month ago, Qimondo layed off 300 people in Dresden. They also stopped all 200mm wafer usage and invested in a new Singapore facility."

Yeah, I'm sure the high wages and benefits and stringent environmental regualtions in Singapore and throughout the rest of China were behind that, too.

"There is simply no way you can paint Vermont as a being the bad guy here. Even triangle park is losing jobs."

There is simply no way they can maintain any of the nonsense they cough up. Have you ever known them to let the facts stand in their way?

Me either.

Speaking of Triangle, in addition to the rest of their shmutz, these clowns had ever heard of them or knew what they were, would probably not only characterize The Triangle Shirt Waist and Ludlow Mining Decisions as anti-business, they'd probably say the same about Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and the Pure Food and Drug Act it prompted, too.
 

- Burlington's property tax rate is between 2 and 3 times that of Cary, NC, depending where they are in their reappraisal cycle. "Income Sensitivity" doesn't apply to some Qimonda employees, and many others are on the verge of breaking through the threshhold. Anyone being recruited here would have been looking down the barrel of 2-3x property taxes - and getting less house for the money.

- Qimonda was lured to Cary in the first place with $9+m in breaks. Now they're getting that back in taxes and then some every year. $210K is too little, too late.
 

What will slugs like jw do when the last business turns off the tax spigot in Vermont? He will still be mouthing mindless inanities to what remains of his pathetic little choir. It's a sorry day in Vermont when the likes of jw has to carry the liberal response to conservative observations. Don't you have anyone better?
 

MetroGroup in Mt. Pleasant will be seeing an expansion of possibly 80 jobs as the corporate office announced that it is closing its manufacturing plant in Vermont and consolidating jobs and services in the Midwest - particularly in Iowa and Nebraska.
In a news release dated Oct. 11, the corporate office said: "This initiative is being implemented to enhance the company's value delivery process to its customers which will be strongly focused on cycle time reduction, postage expense mitigation, service cost containment, and vendor management expense reduction."
Mt. Pleasant is the only Iowa facility in existence. A "now hiring" sign currently sits in front of the Mt. Pleasant plant.
Mike Shea, vice president of Human Resources for MetroGroup based in Lincoln, Neb., said the Mt. Pleasant plant could expect upward to 80 new positions.
A plant in Seward, Neb., will get "somewhat less than that," Shea said.
The move will see the Rutland, Vt., plant closed by mid-December, displacing roughly 200 workers. The Rutland plant is MetroGroup's smallest facility.
The move, the press release states, "will create larger, more efficient centers of operational excellence.
"The decision to close the Rutland facility is in no way a reflection on the outstanding workforce at the Vermont plant."
Shae added that the efficiency gained by consolidating jobs, services and reallocating equipment is why there are fewer jobs opening in the Midwest than what is closing in Vermont.
 

"you're a gop in good standing."

Prove that statement. You can't because I am not. It's just one more piece of disinformation you post.

I always find it interesting how much information you have at your finger-tips. You are clearly the most tied-in guy to the Fortune 500 and their agenda.

Tell me the truth..you are the real GOP fat cat on this board aren't you.
 

Maybe these companies see that our governor is a lightweight with no real plans to tackle Vermont's tough issues. Douglas's plan seems to be to stand on the sideline and whine about the Democrats. Well, by now, Douglas should realize that the Dems enjoy widespread support across Vermont and he better start developing ideas that can get bi-partisan support. I think Douglas and his crew of lackies have had more than enough time to find a way to work with the Dems in our legislature. If he doesn't want to at least attempt that, then get the hell out of the office. Let us elect someone who at least wants to jumpstart a process, rather than moan and belittle it. Now, some GOP hack will fire back with "it's the leadership" that won't work with Douglas, but it's actually Douglas that should be working with the leadership and, in turn, the leadership will work with the entire legislative body, which is its charge. Douglas only has to really convince two people. Those folks have to convince hundreds of others.
 

Check out the chairs of committees in ALEC:Southern state representatives like those from Mississippi and employees of businesses like R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company! 'Nuff said.
 

Jim = Lost Jobs
 

"Check out the chairs of committees in ALEC:Southern state representatives like those from Mississippi and employees of businesses like R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company! 'Nuff said."

Again I'll ask, what is the motivation for these reports consistently picking VT as among the most business unfriendly? It clearly cannot be they are afraid of our economic threat to them. Are you in so much denial that you believe absolutely none of this is true?
 

I said nothing about the immediate above except to point out the credentials of the source of the statistics.
 

I remember the Qimona job ads after the whole Douglas/Qimona thing. They were not $80k jobs, they were for $40-50k, but the job description called for experienced engineers. It was college grad pay scale for 15 years of experience.

I call BS on the whole $80k job thing.
 

Oh sure, lets locate our corporate HQ next to Rutland Regional Airport.
 

From the Boston Globe:
"The job losses are a tough blow to Vermont; many Qimonda employees were making in the range of $85,000 a year."
 

Quimonda is a new company (founded 2006, is in financial difficulty and already WAS headquartered in North Carolina. Did the Globe do its research before it commented?
 

What does that have to do with the fact that many of their VT employees were making $85K a year?
 

many? 5 is many.
 

Nothing. But it is evidence that they are a struggling compnay, that it made sense for the to consolidate where their headquarters is and maybe we're 260k to the good in the deal.
 

Vermont will likely lose at least 100 high-income taxpayers because yet another company realized that Act 60 makes it impossible to recruit such people to this state. I'm not sure how that qualifies as "260K to the good."
 

Act 60 hs nothing to do with Qimondo's decision to reduce its worksforce and consolidate in order to cut costs.
 

The 2x-3x property taxes for high wage earners sure didn't help. You don't go from "we love Vermont, we're going to expand here" to "we're out" in 4 months just because of overall corporate numbers. Inability to recruit from out of state would sure accelerate that decision for you, though. Claiming that Act 60 and its asinine "income sensitivity" provision isn't a huge dissuader to high wage earners, or those who aspire to high wages, who are looking to move here is downright laughable.
 

260 to the good because we might have invested that, only to find a short time down the road, that consolidation in Carolina was inevitable anyway.
 

How many 85k taxpayers are we talking about anyway? Can't imagine enough to make a big difference at state level.
 

Tax incentives typically provide protections against that type of move in a "short time." And it would have to be an awfully short time not to recoup 260K in taxes.
 

"Can't imagine enough to make a big difference at state level."

That's right, losing 100 professionals - even if only 10% are at the $85K level - is no problem. Just keep your head in the sand.
 

The decision being discussed was already within a short time as a blogger above indicated.
 

"You don't go from "we love Vermont, we're going to expand here" to "we're out" in 4 months just because of overall corporate numbers."

Are you really that naive?

You certainly are not going to recruit experienced engineers at the $40-50k pay scale.
 

Losing a failing company is not a result of state business climate; however much you would like it to be. Keep up the negative comments about the state and keep your head in the sand.
 

"You certainly are not going to recruit experienced engineers at the $40-50k pay scale."

Yeah, they moved from an area where the median family income is ~$46K to one where it's over $100K. I kind of doubt that lowballing on salary was the problem.
 

I suppose since GM is announcing the layoff of 1100 workers in NY and Ohio means that New York and Ohio are bad places for business too.

Oh, wait..did't Omya relocate corporate HQ in Ohio?
 

"I suppose since GM is announcing the layoff of 1100 workers in NY and Ohio means that New York and Ohio are bad places for business too."

If they moved those workers to an area where they would have to pay them more, I'd say you're right.
 

Like the GOP, GM top officials were living in the past, relying on Americans love of huge autos and trucks. The signs were there to begin scaling down and start to manufacture hybrids and crossover. Like ostriches though, the GM brass stuck their collective heads in the sand and refused to change. The Japanese, South Koreans and others saw the writing on the wall long ago.

It's too bad the GM workers are now the ones paying for stubborn old white guys and their refusal to budge from massive short-term profit and huge bonuses and retirement packages for themselves.
 

"Yeah, they moved from an area where the median family income is ~$46K to one where it's over $100K. I kind of doubt that lowballing on salary was the problem."

Median family income in VT is $58k and is $52k in NC. The median family income in South Burlington is ~$78k and in Cary is ~$98k.

The company employed 125 in Vermont, but only 50 of them will be offered transfers to North Carolina. The move to Cary is about a 50% reduction in payroll.
 

$69K for Williston where the plant is located ($46K in Burlington, where many of the workers surely live):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williston,_Vermont

$96K for Cary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cary%2C_nc

Although money magazine says $100K+

Oh yeah, and Cary has double the job growth.

This was in response to whomever said they were having trouble recruiting to VT because they were underpaying. You don't move 50 people to an area where the median income is almost 50% higher, and there are infinitely more jobs that they can jump to, because you want to suppress their salaries.
 

Well, you can keep trying to make an argument, but the numbers just don't support your case.

In 2007, Money Magazine puts Cary at $98k, Williston and South Burlington at $78.5k, Essex Junction at $71k, and Burlington at $52.5.

I know that assuming they they will actually live in Cary and that they actually lived in Burlington helps your argument, but it also makes little sense. Nevermind the comparison of median family incomes in this context.

The point is that you can't offer a mere pittance of a salary for positions requiring experienced workers and then cry foul that you can't find suitable employees.

Furthermore, anyway you slice it, the move to cary is about a 50% reduction in labor costs.
 

GM workers helped put themselves out of jobs by their huge union-based wage and benefit DEMANDS. Funny that those enlightened Japanese and Koreans are building all of their plants in the South! Roll, Tide!
 

Cary:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/
bplive/2007/snapshots/PL3710740.html
Median income: $100,749
COL Adjusted: $103,121

Williston:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/
bplive/2007/snapshots/CS5084475.html
Median income: $78,563
COL Adjusted: $66,075

That's a 25+% bump on raw numbers, 57% adjusted for cost of living. Anyone who knows anything about the tech sector knows that the upward pressure on salaries in that part of NC is dramatically higher than here - hit monster.com if you need it spelled out for you. Clearly Qimonda is not looking to cut costs through lower salaries for professional staff.

Gee, they're not bringing the VT facilities people with them to NC? Shocking. Retaining the engineers (and paying for their move, plus likely pay bump) while dumping the facilities people is not going to translate to a 50% labor cost reduction.
 

"Japanese and Koreans are building all of their plants in the South! Roll, Tide!"

Yeah, they know sure suckers when they see them, and there ain't no bigger suckers then the people of the deep south (Bubba excluded).
 

"Clearly Qimonda is not looking to cut costs through lower salaries for professional staff.'

I never said they were.

But are you really that bad at math?

Using your Median Family Income numbers, which really doesn't make any sense:

BTV payroll is 125 employees * $78,000/yr = $9,750,000/yr

The new payroll in RTP is 50 employees * $100,000 = $5,000,000

(125 * $78k) - (50 * $100k) = $4,750,000

That's a $4,750,000/yr (49%) reduction in payroll, not counting the other savings obtained by reducing RTP staff. The move expense is a one-off and probably tax deductable.
 

Uh, yeah, that makes sense if everybody in Williston is making $78K a year - clearly, they're not. But every one of the 50 people they bring to NC will probably make at least $100K a year.

I don't know if this ever occurred to you, but EE's who are carrying the IP upon which a large corporation is based around in their head, along with the capacity to come up with more, tend to make a bit more than janitors.

And if the numbers I quoted doesn't (sic) make any sense to you, complain to Money magazine, not me.
 

"But every one of the 50 people they bring to NC will probably make at least $100K a year. "

I bet not. Cary has a huge population of PHD's which would skew the numnbers high. Also, the $100k number is Median Family Income which is always higher than houshold or individual income.

Here, from Wikipedia:

"According to a 2006 estimate, the median income for a household in the town was $80,986, and the median income for a family was $96,602.[7] Males had a median income of $62,012 versus $38,819 for females. The per capita income for the town was $32,974. "

Use of the Median Familiy income numbers don't make sense because of exactly what you state that "that makes sense if everybody in Williston is making $78K a year ".

But it doesn't really matter, because even bumping up the salary on the 50 people (and we have no evidence that will happen) will still result in a huge savings in labor.

Consolidating to save labor costs isn't something new.
 

I never disputed that they will save some money in labor costs. It certainly won't be 50% (if you want to use wikipedia's numbers that's fine, Williston's numbers will be similarly smaller and the same principle still applies).

The point is that there's an enormous disparity between the professional and support staff at a chipmaker's R&D facility, and when you move the former to a higher-income area and ditch the latter, you're not saving a whole lot in labor. Factor in all associated costs and the decision to shut down the Williston facility will probably prove to be net negative for Qimonda in the short-medium term.
 

So tell me again why did they choose NC over VT? They could have moved in either direction if all things were equal. Clearly they were not.
 

The enormous disparity is rendered moot by the fact that there are 50% more people being layed off than there are being offered new work.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but you make too many assumptions such as thinking that the relocated people would be payed more, that the mean salaries reflect anticipated earnings, and that some of the remaining employees are not high wage earners.

It's reasonable to expect that some of the employees offered relocation are not engineers and perhaps project managers, client facing reps, supply chain, etc. It's also reasonable to expect that some of the layed off people are engineers and are higher payed positions.

Even if the average salaries of those 75 layed off at $45k that means that the labor savings is ~35% and that's using the assumption that everybody moving to RTP gets a new $100k salary which is unlikely.

I would wager that the average salary of the layed off workers is more like $60k and that the anticipated new salary in RTP of the engineers is more in the $80-$90k range.

I still go with the math and all things point to a 50% reduction of labor for BTV operations.

The Qimonda consolidation makes sense. BTV was Qimonda's smallest US facility. The RTP facility is bigger and with the RTP layoffs combined with the BTV layoffs, the company will not need to relocate to a different building.
 

"I would wager that the average salary of the layed off workers is more like $60k"

I would wager that that figure is convenient for your position, but highly unlikely. Logic tells us that, even if a few low-performing engineering staff are left behind, the bulk of those laid off are facilities and support staff. What does a janitor or receptionist make in VT?

"and that the anticipated new salary in RTP of the engineers is more in the $80-$90k range."

Not if they want to keep them around. There are actually other jobs for engineers down there, and losing key R&D staff can cost a company millions.

Now factor in relocation costs, integrating the VT and NC staff, shutting down VT operations, lost productivity etc. If you break even on that decision in the first year, you're doing well. If they had pulled along 10 or 15 staff, I'd say they're trying to save a bit of scratch. As it is, it smells more like recognition of a bad decision.
 

"Your nitwit-nonsense act didn't fly when Ruthie Dwyer and her Tunbridge Taliban supporters got smoked twice within the past decade."

Yeah, smoked by a conservative Democrat -- someone you would have been complaining about at the time for being too conservative. Can't have it both ways, pal.
 

Sure, Qimonda has 50 engineers and 75 janitors. That makes sense. Or maybe its one secretary for every engineer?

You seem to think that either you ar a janitor, a secretarty or an engineer. Now thats funny. No managers? No execs? No test? No verification? No finance? No project management? Sales? Liasons?

I'm thinking you walk around with a big head and a sliderule. Which doesn't make too much sense really because you are obviously bad at math. Get layed off?

What math tells us is that even if you use a low average for the remaining people and a high average for those in RTP, you still are over 35% labor cost reduction. Adjusting the figures to realistic values, moves the number toward 50%.

Either way, its a huge savings and a like the layoff in Dresden and the layoff in RTP, a response to a bad bottom line.
 

I know people who work in RTP in tech and the salaries here aren't much different than there and housing is just as bad.

The median expected salaries from monster.com

Electrical Engineer I
Raleigh-Durham, NC, is $53,707.
Burlington, VT, is $53,105.

Electrical Engineer II
Raleigh-Durham, NC, is $66,838
Burlington, VT, is $66,089.

Electrical Engineer III
Raleigh-Durham, NC, is $78,315. Burlington, VT, is $77,437.

Electrical Engineer IV
Raleigh-Durham, NC, is $89,850
Burlington, VT, is $88,843.

Electrical Engineer V
Raleigh-Durham, NC, is $102,082.
Burlington, VT, is $100,937.
 

Obviously a $210,000 gift isn't going to do much for a company that is $375 million in the hole.
 

Anonymous said...

"Your nitwit-nonsense act didn't fly when Ruthie Dwyer and her Tunbridge Taliban supporters got smoked twice within the past decade."

"Yeah, smoked by a conservative Democrat -- someone you would have been complaining about at the time for being too conservative. Can't have it both ways, pal."

Really? So, Howard Dean is a Conservative Democrat, eh?

If you've got proof I didn't vote for Howard Dean, feel free to show your cards, little fella.

I just love dealin' with the dim-witted, factually-challenged likes o'you, little fella. The only problem is that I'm hungry again an hour later.

Good luck sellin' that slop to the RNC, little fella. As with all things, you're gonna need it.

In other words, a Wing-nut whack-job and her take back Vermont trash supporters got smoked by Howard Dean, eh?

And that differs from what I initially said.....how?

That's what I thought.

Have ya checked the composition of the Vermont State Legislature and Vermont's Congressional Delegation in DC lately, little fella?

No one seems to be buyin' your gop-slop nonsense, sport. Ya best get used to it. Lord knows the facts aren't doin' ya any favors.

So, tell me another story about what a loyal Democrat you are again, little fella.

Always a pleasure.
 

"You seem to think that either you ar a janitor, a secretarty or an engineer."

You can jockey the numbers all you want - I think that's what you're doing, the whole semi-literate thing makes your posts a little hard to follow - but anybody who has ever worked in a professional office understands the facts. Unless you think the technical staff are answering the phones and cleaning up at night, assuming a $60K AVERAGE for the 60% of an R&D facility that's left behind is laughable, and you've conveniently ignored all of the other costs associated with the shutdown.

The fact remains that, as a poster above (kind of) pointed out, companies like this don't make strategic decisions that could impact their IP pipeline because they stand to save a fraction of a percent of their latest quarterly loss. If the company or their parent saw long-term value in the VT facility, they wouldn't shut it down. It would either pull its weight or go down with the ship. They obviously realized that they weren't getting what they thought they signed up for.
 

9:43 poster showed very similar salaries for engineers in Burlington and Raleigh-Durham. Overall household income in Burlington is $33,049 compared to $40,754 in Raleigh. However, as anyone (except jw, of course) knows, the cost of living is much higher in Burlington, mainly due to Vermont's out-of-sight taxes. Instead of constantly denigrating southern states, isn't it about time Vermont started emulating them? (After all, Mississippi can turn off your lights any time it feels like it!)
 

Of course anybody, with the exception of you, who has worked in a R&D outfit understands that their will be a variety of employees at a variety of skill levels.

Not only will they recognize that, they will also understand that the pay scale of other tasks such as management, finance, project management, etc, will be comparable with that of an engineer.

I used your own numbers, and still the math comes out to over 35%. And now we see that the high paying jobs on monster.com are actually mythical and that the pay scales between the two areas are basically the same and not the 25% higher that your claim.

So guess, what? Even with your own numbers, it really does look like close to a 50% labor savings.

You can call that jockeying the numbers, but they are your numbers and the calculation is about as straightforward as it gets.

Are you in so much denial, that you can't grasp simple business concepts?

I am sure the top tier execs were watching the loss accumulate throughout the fiscal year. By their own admission, operations were flawed. Hence the global strategic realignment that included cost reductions, changing from memory to logic, and efficiency measures of moving off of 200mm wafers. There was no long term value in much of anything they were doing. It was a train wreck. The final quarter is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Frankly, I'm amused. Companies like this do make strategic decisions that do in fact influence IP. Typically with an upper level exec making a few strokes of the pen and the bottom levels of management scrambling to try and figure out who to save.

"obviously realized that they weren't getting what they thought they signed up for."

You have the cart before the horse. They knew what they signed up for, the problem is dram prices dropped by 53%.
 

If you legitimately believe that the 60% of staff that gets left behind makes anything close to the 40% that are being offered relocation by a struggling company, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Even in a best case scenario, once you factor in costs associated with the shutdown, which you continue to ignore, the total savings over the course of a year would not amount to one quarter of one percent of their net loss over the past fiscal year. Remember, they *opened* the Williston facility on the heels of a $270m Q3 loss.

"Companies like this do make strategic decisions that do in fact influence IP."

Of course they do, and deciding that they don't want to be in VT anymore was certainly a strategic decision. But as I said, they wouldn't do it just to save such a small amount of money if they still felt there were any chance that the facility would someday become what they had originally envisioned.
 

Actually these are times when companies trim the fat. It's not uncommon for companies to rid themselves of an older workforce in favor of fresh perspective.

I never ignored associated costs of shutdown. That was a point you brought up. These are one-off expenses, probably will be put on the balance sheet as losses against future profits or written off some other way. They already are recovering $286 million from lease/buy back of the Richmond plant by some Austrailian company. It's not just Vermont that's getting the cleaver. Maybe with the combined cost savings, they will be able to get back into the black.

The company's miserable performance required dramatic change.

"By consolidating its design and research operations in Cary, Qimonda expects “to better utilize existing resources, improve efficiencies and contain costs,” the company wrote in a prepared statement."
 

I suppose you expected them to say they were disappointed in their inability to recruit anyone to the state. You don't open an R&D facility on the back of a $270m loss then close it 4 months later on the back of a $378m loss, for a potential savings of a tiny fraction of either of those numbers, unless there's something wrong with that facility. It's not manufacturing, it's R&D; absent a specific problem, that's always the last thing to go. Leasing unused equipment and buildings is in no way similar to shutting down an entire R&D facility.
 

"It's not uncommon for companies to rid themselves of an older workforce in favor of fresh perspective."

They opened the place 4 months ago!
 

"absent a specific problem"

Which is that dram dprices dropped by 53%.
 

Anonymous said...

"We need to find some way of spinning Windham County off into their own orbit - and to take their legislators with them. Only then will we have any prayer of getting this state back on the right track."

Nah, we've already got the likes of you, yourselves and bubbles in that role.

Nice try.

If you think shedding Windham County will be the answer to your prayers in getting Vermont "back on the right track," then perhaps, in addition to being completely psychotic and utterly-clueless on every conceivable topic in level, most Vermonters don't buy your knuckle-draggin,' nitwit-nonsense any more than I do.

Mississippi beckons, little fella.

Mississippi beckons.

Always a pleasure.
 

Here from the williston select board meeting:

http://town.williston.vt.us/mgr/minsb07/Sb031207.htm


Mr. Fehrs asked why build a plan around a specific company? Mr. Dunn responded that over five years this company has continued to grow and is building with a long-term lease. Qimonda is committed to signing a long-term lease because they want to stay here.

Alan Walker of Qimonda cannot commit to 10 years, but the company has been here in Williston for 17 years and expects their business to continue grow.
 

From the planning commision. Looks like the select board notes have a typo. In any case Qimonda greew out of Siemens in 1999.

http://town.williston.vt.us/plan/plan/pc011607.htm

QiMonda’s Williston facility started up in 2000, with 30 employees. As noted above, the firm now employs approximately 118. August, 2006 correspondence from the company’s president states, “We are targeting a total employee population between 150 and 200 …”. A new facility will allow QiMonda to continue growing and contributing to the local, regional, and state economies.
 

Qimonda has been here since 1999, just not in the new fancy building.

I know you would like to somehow turn this into a "Vermont is the problem" issue, but it just doesn't pan out and even Qimonda has not made any statement to warrant that accusation.

Sorry folks, it just ain't there.
 

bubba said...

"9:43 poster showed very similar salaries for engineers in Burlington and Raleigh-Durham. Overall household income in Burlington is $33,049 compared to $40,754 in Raleigh. However, as anyone (except jw, of course) knows, the cost of living is much higher in Burlington, mainly due to Vermont's out-of-sight taxes. Instead of constantly denigrating southern states, isn't it about time Vermont started emulating them? (After all, Mississippi can turn off your lights any time it feels like it!?

No. I don't. As far as Southern States go, the Confederacy of the Clueless can't be denigrated enough to suit me.

If you like Mayberry so much, bubbles, then move there. You and the little fella can bunk with Otis the Drunk or Floyd the Barber.

By all means, don't let the door hit ya in your sorry butt on the way out.

Any State that elected and kept reelecting the racist slime likes of Jesse Helms over and over again just doesn't do it for me, bubbles.
 

"even Qimonda has not made any statement to warrant that accusation. "

Wow, that's surprising.

I would love to know how many people they recruited from out of state over the entire time they were here. NC would look better to the unbiased high-wage jobseeker in almost every conceivable way. Lose your engineering job in NC, find another one next week. Lose it here, either take something at IBM or pack your bags. Then of course there's the dramatically higher property taxes on a smaller house at the same purchase price, the higher cost of living, etc.
 

Anonymous said...

"They opened the place 4 months ago!"

Ya know, little fella, given your practice of dealing almost exclusively in lies, half-truths, and gross distortion of the facts, one would think ya'd be better at it by now.

Always a pleasure.
 

Anonymous said...

"even Qimonda has not made any statement to warrant that accusation. "

Wow, that's surprising.

"I would love to know how many people they recruited from out of state over the entire time they were here."

I'm sure ya would, little fella. Then again, I'm sure you'd love to know anything whatsoever.

"NC would look better to the unbiased high-wage jobseeker in almost every conceivable way. Lose your engineering job in NC, find another one next week. Lose it here, either take something at IBM or pack your bags. Then of course there's the dramatically higher property taxes on a smaller house at the same purchase price, the higher cost of living, etc."

They would, eh?

Talk about assuming facts not in evidence.

As always, while your gross generalizations, thick-headed theories and assumptions never cease to amaze and amuse, the fact remains that you've yet to establish a cause and effect relationship between the Qimondas of the World pulling up stakes and the policies of the State of Vermont or produce any credible evidence in support of your asinine assumptions

If you've got evidence that there is any in the first place, you sure as hell haven't produced it.

Moreover, if you've got evidence that no companies in NC have pulled up stakes for the greener pastures of Malaysia or Cambodia or have downsized in the past few years or that a highly-paid engineer in his mid-40s or 50s who'd been laid off could just make a phone call or two and be back on the job at roughly the same pay within a week, then as long as you're in the neighborhood, feel free to cough that up, too, while you're at it.

Always a pleasure.
 

"produce any credible evidence in support of your asinine assumptions"

Property tax rates, home prices, job listings, cost of living indices, etc. are public information.
 

Anonymous said...
"you're a gop in good standing."

"Prove that statement. You can't because I am not. It's just one more piece of disinformation you post."

Ask and ye shall receive.

I'd give ya more but I'd have to change threads again. There's more than enough of your rope here for ya to hang yourself with.

Have a pleasant evening.

Knock yourself out, little fella.

--------------------------------------

Anonymous said...


"Jw, shut up."

So, Chairman Stalin, please remind of the date of the Vt. Dem. Pty. meeting when you were elected Dogma Czar and Minister of Membership?

Thought so.

You probably don't even pay dues to the State Party.

It must really frustrate you that you don't get to decide what the Dem. Party dogma is, and that you don't get to decide who's in and who's out. You're a wannabe.

I'm a member. Tough for you.

Ass.

9:58 AM, December 16, 2007

----------------------------------------

JWCoop10 has left a new comment on the post "Douglas lifts Sand ban":

Anonymous said...

"You want to be Speaker of the Vt. House. You want to be social and economic policy czar of Vt. You want to be "enforcer of orthodoxy" of Vt. Dems."

I do, eh? As always, feel free to cough up some evidence to substantiate that contention, little fella.

That's what I thought.

"You'll never be any of the above. Get used to it."

As opposed to the lunatic fringe fraud likes of you, little fella?

Again, feel free to demonstrate where I've expressed a desire to be Speaker, shmendrik.

The floor is yours.

---------------------------------------

Anonymous said...
"It really is tough when you have to be accountable for your own actions."

You are exactly right and in that statement is the fundamental difference in the Parties. GW, Cheney, and all the other Repubs you don't like have made decisions, have had the courage of their convictions and have answered for the consequences of their actions. You may not like these guys but you have to admit they have been consistent in their actions. The Dems on the other hand found it fun to take pot shots at the Administration, talked a big game to get into a leadership role and now that they have to do something, can not. They have turned on themselves and have brought the Congress to its knees. It's not Pelosi's fault it's Reid....no no no it's not Reid, it's Pelosi...no no no it's someone else. C'mon.

That is why in an environment when they could shine and lock in control for years they have blown it because they are acting like the amateurs they are. You see it in the approval ratings posted earlier.

Accountability is tough.

2:03 PM, December 13, 2007


Anonymous said...
"Lke I keep tellin' ya, little buddy. Adult Basic Education - Look into it. "

Thanks for the good advice JW. I am filling out my application now to your alma mater: The Jethro Bodine School fer Higher Edekation. I hope to follow in your footsteps majoring in 5th Grade. I understand you still hold the record for having repeated it 8 times.

2:12 PM, December 13, 2007


Anonymous said...
"now that they have to do something, can not"

Yeah Einstein (p.s. "cannot" is one word). That's because Bush vetoes (or threatens to) every meaningful piece of legislation the Dems put forward.

I'm not too worried though. After the 2008 elections, the GOP dinsaurs will be gone and a new era can begin. FINALLY!

2:39 PM, December 13, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...
"It really is tough when you have to be accountable for your own actions."

"You are exactly right and in that statement is the fundamental difference in the Parties. GW, Cheney, and all the other Repubs you don't like have made decisions, have had the courage of their convictions and have answered for the consequences of their actions."

They have, eh? Who? When? How? Where?

All they've done is steal elections, ignore intelligence warnings, lie, stonewall, obstruct justice, and start unnecessary and unwarranted wars that get other people's kids, spouses, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles and friends killed and maimed for nothing before sticking them in the likes of Building 18 if they were lucky enough to make it that far.

All that happened on this Schmuck's watch, douche bag.

They've wrecked the economy, squandered the surplus, and left this Country hated around the World.

There is not one aspect of American Life that is better for their actions and as long as they remain above ground, they will not have taken responsibility or held accountable for their actions.

At least Hitler had the decency to kill himself. It's a sad day for this Country when the President of the United States cedes the moral high ground to the fookin' fuhrer, but nevertheless, that's what it's come to.

No honest, intelligent, decent, patriotic American can possibly support this Administration.

Anyone who does is none of those things.

Am I goin' too fast for ya, punk?

I'll say it again. Anyone, Anywhere who supports this Administration and its policies is Scum.

Go cheney yourself, douche bag.

Dismissed.

2:53 PM, December 13, 2007


Anonymous said...
"That's because Bush vetoes (or threatens to) every meaningful piece of legislation the Dems put forward."

Threats stop the powerful Dems? Wow... if it's that meaningful, overturn the veto.

Apparently it can't (did I use that word correctly?)be too meaningful if they can't find the few extra votes they need for an override. I thought everyone disagreed with GW. Should be easy but apparently not, huh.

Your pal,

Einstein

4:18 PM, December 13, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...

That's because Bush vetoes (or threatens to) every meaningful piece of legislation the Dems put forward.

"Threats stop the powerful Dems? Wow... if it's that meaningful, overturn the veto."

No, nitwit, the Rules of the Senate and simple arithmetic do.

Once again, punk, as long as the gops in Congress are more loyal to Bush than the Constitution of the United States and the American People, the Dems simply don't have the numbers to override Bush's vetoes.

If you knew your ass from your elbow or had a frickin' clue about the subject matter at hand or anything we deal with on this board, you'd know that.

Moreover, in addition to being ignorant, ill-informed and fundamentally-dishonest trash on your best day, you're pure scum on a human level.

And you wonder why Jeffords said stuff it to Fascism and Leahy and the Senate Judiciary Committee voted 12-7 to issue Contempt Citations to Rove and Bolten.

Clearly, Bush and the Gops in Congress have no honor or integrity.

In the Spirit of the Season, it's high time Leahy ripped their frickin' heads off and pissed down their necks.

Always a pleasure.

4:50 PM, December 13, 2007


Anonymous said...
"I just shred your sorry butts."

Simply calling names is not "shredding" anyone.

8:36 PM, December 13, 2007


Anonymous said...
Formula for a JW post, on any blog, on any subject:

1. Type the following:

"Nice try. No sale. Nitwit. Likes 'o you. Clueless. I-don't-have-to-state-any-facts-because-you're-wrong. Schmendrik. Always a pleasure. Dismissed."

2. Repeat the above 5 times but scramble the order.

3. Hit "send."

4. Ask mommy for more milk before bed.

8:40 PM, December 13, 2007


JWCoop10 said...

Anonymous said...

"Formula for a JW post, on any blog, on any subject:"

Hey, why bother baitin' the hook when you're gonna jump right in the boat, sport.

When it comes to shreddin' your sorry butt you certainly do make my job easy for me, little fella.

I appreciate that.

Always a pleasure.

10:21 PM, December 13, 2007

I'm disappointed with Gov. Douglas. His "politics first" style is becoming too obvious to ignore or forgive. Especially --such as in the area of drug issues --when it hurts real people.

Bobby Sands, on the other hand, has been acting like a responsible grown up. The same goes for TJ Donovan. Donovan seems to be handling the Colchester police situation directly, but with dignity and restraint. He'd make a good governor.

I feel for the police officers. Their job is stressful on many levels. It would be hard to arrest a friend or fellow officer. Especially knowing that such an arrest would perhaps subject a police officer (and the department) to extra (and sometimes mean-spirited) ridicule.

Driving drunk can be deadly. It's far more serious than possessing or smoking marijuana. But I'd still favor court diversion and job probation for first offenders.

Court diversion isn't a free pass. It's an opportunity to take responsibility for what you've done, and earn a second chance.

Douglas seems to want to end the marijuana discussion because it isn't going his way politically. But he doesn't want to take responsibility for his transgressions or earn a second chance. He wants the free ride. I can't respect that.

11:02 PM, December 13, 2007


Anonymous said...
You posted the exact same rant on the Freyne blog verbatim. Is your opinion that important?

12:42 AM, December 14, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
It is to you, evidently.

I certainly come across my share of wing-nut-nitwits in my travels, little fella, but I've never encountered anyone so obsessed with googling the opinions of other people while bitchin' about them expressin' those opinions until I stumbled over the likes o'you, sport.

What's up with that?

Why are you so consumed with limiting the speech of others, little fella?

6:46 AM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
At least he actually has an opinion, whether it's good or bad, and expresses it in a clear, coherent, non-confrontational way. You should ask him/her for lessons.

7:11 AM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
"I thought he was concerned about equitable application of our laws. And avoiding the appearance that those in positions of authority and trust are above the law.I thought he was concerned about equitable application of our laws. And avoiding the appearance that those in positions of authority and trust are above the law."

It is disappointing. What has happenend in Colchester is equally wrong.

7:16 AM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
JW...your postings (2:53PM and 4:50PM) from yesterday speak volumes about you.

Regardless of your politics, you are truly distrubed and need serious help. Please redirect your blog postings to the APA.

7:31 AM, December 14, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
They do, eh? Feel free to refresh my memory, little fella.

Your response shows how little you've got going for you in every sense of the word.

You're dumb. You're scum. You're simply an ignorant, ill-informed, knuckle-draggin', shrub-shillin' nitwit on your best day.

You're not havin' your best day.

Dismissed.

8:10 AM, December 14, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...

"At least he actually has an opinion, whether it's good or bad, and expresses it in a clear, coherent, non-confrontational way. You should ask him/her for lessons."

What do you need me to draw you a map about this time, little fella?

That's the tie that binds all you loons. None of ya can take a punch.

You have an opinion, too, little fella. It's just an ignorant, ill-informed, factually-challenged one.

Keep postin'. By all means, don't quit 'cause your losin'.

Always a pleasure.

8:24 AM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
"Your response shows how little you've got going for you in every sense of the word."

Actually it show my deep liberal concern for your mental well being. I am willing to see my tax dollars used to fund your journey back towards mental stability.

Get some help.

8:53 AM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
Who is got the balls to run against Jim Douglas?

8:54 PM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
Who cares? We need a new Attorney General - ASAP!

8:54 PM, December 14, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...

"Who cares? We need a new Attorney General - ASAP!"

Because........?

9:20 PM, December 14, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...

"Who is got the balls to run against Jim Douglas?"

So far, Polina has the stones to run against Les Nessman.

Actually, Matt Dunne has 'em. Jeb Spaulding has 'em, too.

If the Dems can come up with the candidate and the cash, Jiminy Cricket can be beaten.

10:16 PM, December 14, 2007


Anonymous said...
"If the Dems can come up with the candidate and the cash, Jiminy Cricket can be beaten."

Oh, you mean if one party comes up with an attractive candidate and throws in lots of money, they can beat the opposing party's candidate? Really?

Duh. You must be one of those high-priced political consultants.

Care to get a little more specific about WHICH candidate and HOW MUCH money?

10:38 PM, December 14, 2007

JWCoop10 said...

Anonymous said...

"If you've got nothing to offer but this anonymous sanctimonious slop of yours, stuff a sock in it."

Look above ya, little fella. I already did.

Secondly, ya gonna tell me Douglas won't spend a small fortune tryin' to keep his job, pinhead.

I'll take my chances with your boy on a level playing field.



Anonymous said...
""That is true projection."
No, that would be this comment of yours, punk."

No, that would be this comment of yours, punk.

Get it?

Idiot.

11:55 PM, December 14, 2007


Comment deleted
This post has been removed by the author.

6:50 AM, December 15, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Way ahead of ya, schmuck.

I knew you were an ignorant, ill-informed, fundamentally-dishonest, UnAmerican sack o'shite without a legitimately patriotic bone in your body before you even knew I existed.

Keep at it, little fella. In a year or two you just might graduate to "I'm rubber your glue" yet.

Always a pleasure.

6:59 AM, December 15, 2007


Anonymous said...
"I knew you were an ignorant, ill-informed, fundamentally-dishonest, UnAmerican sack o'shite without a legitimately patriotic bone in your body before you even knew I existed."

Of course. You know ALL about me. You know everything about everyone here. Right. That's because you're omniscient. You know everything and don't have to prove anything. Everyone on here who doesn't agree with you is a conservative Republican. Just because they don't goosestep to your exact beliefs and sarcastic, shitty tone? I'm sure many of the posters on this blog are Democratic voters like me. But, no, according to you, anyone who doesn't hold your exact view on every issue (whatever that view may be, since we don't know until you spew a post) must be a right-winger. Guess what, douche? You're wrong. Congratulations!

If anyone who is to the right of you on any issue is "an ignorant, ill-informed, fundamentally-dishonest, UnAmerican sack o'shite without a legitimately patriotic bone in [his/her] body," does that mean the Progs to your left can say the same thing about you, little fella?

Douche.

2:23 PM, December 15, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
I knew you were an ignorant, ill-informed, fundamentally-dishonest, UnAmerican sack o'shite without a legitimately patriotic bone in your body before you even knew I existed.

"Of course. You know ALL about me. You know everything about everyone here. Right. That's because you're omniscient."

I know that there's nothin' to know, little fella.

Half an hour of skimmin' the posts of you, yourselves and bubba more than prove that when it comes to smarts, there's simply no there, there.

Your brains rattle around in your heads like a BB in a boxcar.

As for the omniscient bit, that's sweet of ya to say but you said it, not me.

Still, unlike you, I know which end is up and what day it is so I can see how you'd get that impression.

Let me know if I'm goin' too fast for ya, little fella.

"You know everything and don't have to prove anything. Everyone on here who doesn't agree with you is a conservative Republican."

Like I keep tellin' ya, little fella. You keep provin' you don't know your ass from your elbow while I just point it out and give ya the occasional nudge towards the grave you've dug for you and the rest of yourselves.

"Just because they don't goosestep to your exact beliefs and sarcastic, shitty tone?

In other words, you coalition of the clueless cretins don't like it when somebody calls ya on your BS and smacks ya back.

Gee, you can imagine how badly I feel about that.

Well, actually, I'm sure you can't, but you're gonna have to try to do it anyhow.

"I'm sure many of the posters on this blog are Democratic voters like me. But, no, according to you, anyone who doesn't hold your exact view on every issue (whatever that view may be, since we don't know until you spew a post) must be a right-winger."

Nah, but you, your anonymous, invisible little friends and bubbles are.

Gimme a break.

You're a Dem like I'm the Middle Weight Champion of the World, little fella.

All I see you do - when you're not stealin' my lines and googling jwcoop10 to tell me stories about my life - is trash Symington and Shumlin as you agree with bubbles and sing the praises of Jiminy Cricket and the Bush Administration.

You may not be as whacked as bubbles but you're within walking distance.

Then again, at least he makes an effort to distinguish himself and he's not pretending to be a moderate anything let alone a moderate Dem, sport.

The likes o'you on the other hand, not so much.

"If anyone who is to the right of you on any issue is "an ignorant, ill-informed, fundamentally-dishonest, UnAmerican sack o'shite without a legitimately patriotic bone in [his/her] body," does that mean the Progs to your left can say the same thing about you, little fella?"

Sure. I don't support Bush, the War in Iraq, the War he wanted to start with Iran 'til he got busted for lyin' about that, too or the lousy job he's doin' on everything else under the Sun so it'd be almost as silly of them to say it as it is for the likes o'you, little fella, but they can say whatever they want. I don't give a damn.

The facts aren't doin' them any more favors than they're doin' the likes of you, little fella.

As for this other posters slop you keep spewin', just who and where the hell are they? I've been here a month and all I've seen is me, bubbles, Hoffer and maybe one or two others.

Fair enough. That takes care of the fingers on one hand. Apart from that, there's virtually nothin' but anonymous posters and probably half of them are your anonymous, imaginary little friends, sport.

Again, I don't give a damn if somebody posts as Brittany999, sport. At least they're making the effort to differentiate themselves from everyone else.

No matter what their views or their politics, if somebody can't make that much of an effort, why should I give a damn what they think?

That's what I thought.

Always a pleasure.

9:04 PM, December 15, 2007


Anonymous said...
I am a Dem. And you're an ass.

Tough break for ya, little fella.

9:56 PM, December 15, 2007


JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...
To quote from JWCoop10:

"...because a couple of Dem Reps couldn't make it."

"Lose the Ms Nice Guy shtick, Gaye and get a Dem Chair and somebody who knows what they're doing like Sue Minter in a key role."

"JWCoop10 - you are a complete idiot."

Again with the sweet talk, little fella. Knock it off. You're gonna make me blush.

There were a couple of other Dems besides Sue Minter that weren't there, shmendrik. And if memory serves, they were in VT but absent for other reasons.

She wasn't the only one absent, little fella.

Moreover, Jiminy Cricket picked Jon Anderson to replace Francis Brooks when he became Sgt At Arms and replaced the Deer Jacker.

Anderson voted with Douglas and against the interests and the wishes of the City of Montpelier.

Again, the point being that Symington should have had a vote count and the necessary people in place to make sure the veto could not be sustained.

Besides, unlike you, Minter knows her stuff about transportation.

Get your facts straight or stuff a sock in it.

As for VY, they're not just another business so spare me the poor, poor persecuted business community song and dance, punk.

You don't want VY to pay for Education, fine. Let 'em pick up the tab for the Corrections Budget.

Perhaps you haven't heard, Corrections is up 10 percent this year. That's a hell of a lot more than Education, little fella.

So, how's that evidence hunt comin' google boy?

10:19 PM, December 15, 2007

-----------------------------------------

Anonymous said...

"I am a Dem. And you're an ass."

Yeah, and I'm Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

Sure, ya are, schmuck. Sure, ya are.

Peddle that slop to bubbles, punk. Nobody else is buyin' it.

Ya got bupkis, bozo. Bupkis.

Tough break, little fella.

Always a pleasure.

10:25 PM, December 15, 2007

------------------------------------

Always a pleasure.
 

Anonymous said...
"produce any credible evidence in support of your asinine assumptions"

"Property tax rates, home prices, job listings, cost of living indices, etc. are public information."

Gee, don't you have a firm grasp of the obvious.

No kiddin, clueless.

I never said their wasn't a problem. I said the coalition of the clueless likes of Jim Douglas, you, yourselves, bubbles, bush, stephen moore and ALEC don't have the solution.

Am I still goin' too fast for ya?

Do ya need me to tell ya again?

Always a pleasure.
 

Anonymous said...

jwpoop10 seems to have all the answers.

Nah, unlike you, I just know the right questions. That makes it a lot easier.

Always a pleasure.
 

"I never said their wasn't a problem. I said the coalition of the clueless likes of Jim Douglas, you, yourselves, bubbles, bush, stephen moore and ALEC don't have the solution."

Really? Somehow I don't get that from the statement to which I was responding:

"the fact remains that you've yet to establish a cause and effect relationship between the Qimondas of the World pulling up stakes and the policies of the State of Vermont or produce any credible evidence in support of your asinine assumptions"

Given that the "asinine assumption" to which you referred was that it's difficult to recruit out of state workers here because of the problems that you acknowledge, it seems that we are in agreement.
 

"JWCoop10 said...
Anonymous said...

jwpoop10 seems to have all the answers.

Nah, unlike you, I just know the right questions. That makes it a lot easier."

Yeah JW, you are a real smart guy. All your fellow Alums from the Jethro Bodine School of Higher Edekation are proud of you.

And you thought your mother was kidding when she said majoring in the 5th Grade would pay off for you.
 

Anonymous said...

"I never said there wasn't a problem. I said the coalition of the clueless likes of Jim Douglas, you, yourselves, bubbles, bush, stephen moore and ALEC don't have the solution."

"Really? Somehow I don't get that from the statement to which I was responding:

"the fact remains that you've yet to establish a cause and effect relationship between the Qimondas of the World pulling up stakes and the policies of the State of Vermont or produce any credible evidence in support of your asinine assumptions"

Gee, what a surprise.

And once again, the already extensive list of things you don't get continues to grow.

"Given that the "asinine assumption" to which you referred was that it's difficult to recruit out of state workers here because of the problems that you acknowledge, it seems that we are in agreement."

It does, eh?

As if.

Which part of your wingnut, whack-job "solutions" are not the cure for what ails us is givin' you trouble, little fella?



Always a pleasure.
 

"It does, eh?

As if."

Just what the Progs need, another embarrassing spokesman.
 

Terri,

"Which part of your wingnut, whack-job "solutions" are not the cure for what ails us is givin' you trouble, little fella?"

Another informative posting by jwcoop.
 

Replace Shumlin, Symington, jwcoop
and bubba.
 

terri, please take a look at jwcoop's uncivil posting of 7:19 and ask yourself if he has heeded your request to "clean it up?"

Thanks.
 

REPLACE SHUMLIN, SYMINGTON, AND
PARTRIDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Anonymous said...

"REPLACE SHUMLIN, SYMINGTON, AND
PARTRIDGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

11:06 PM, December 30, 2007

With whom, little fella?