vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

12.28.2007

The missing link

Here's the corrected version on VTW viewers' top 10 with the missing #6 filled in. As you contemplate the importance of the year's stories, do you take into consideration the hubbub the story created at the time, or its lasting impact on the lives of Vermonters?

As selected by Vermont This Week viewers (39 votes)
1. Democrats fail to override Governor's vetoes
2. Leahy assumes leading role in battle with White House
3. Vermont Yankee cooling tower collapse causes alarm
4. Communities back impeachment resolution
5. Rep. Welch targeted by anti-war activists
6. Federal court upholds Vermont's emissions law
7. School spending caps increases
8. Climate change dominates much of legislative session
9. Valentine's Day blizzard sees up to 30" fall
10. Catamount Health begins

- Terri Hallenbeck

posted by vt.Buzz | 10:14 AM |

Comments:

The big story should be the continuing deterioration of Vermont, a story that really started in the 70's with the arrival of the first new settlers in their Volvos, eager to turn a conservative, independent state into a leftist Disneyworld, where peace and justice (and welfare) reign, and the evil world of private enterprise was to be driven southward (just enough left to pay for the socialist dream). They have in part succeeded, as evidenced by the migration of youth and jobs southward, and the ultimate goal of attaining NUMBER ONE TAX state in the union! While the libs enact laws providing transsexual bathrooms, solve global warming, and trash the duly elected leaders of this country, the remaining workers struggle to put food on the table and heat their houses! Well done, what-passes-for-Vermont-today!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:52 AM, December 28, 2007

May all the bubbas of Vermont migrate southward.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:04 AM, December 28, 2007

The political landscape changed in part to Reynolds v. Sims "one man, one vote" in the mid 60's. Prior to redistricting, Vermont's smallest district had 36 people and the largest had 35,000. This inequality benefited republicans.

The notion that Vermont has a republican heritage is built upon this inequality where rural, and typically more republican, areas had more legislative power.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:58 AM, December 28, 2007

And now, the dims/progs have created one of the three most crooked voting districts in the U.S. in Chittenden County, where "at large" Senatorial district guarantees that 6 leftists will be elected each year (due in no small part to the equally corrupt concept of letting "students" from out of state vote )because they are all thrown into the same ballot! Sounds a little bit like the left's favorite country du jour, Venezuela! Take back Vermont!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:23 PM, December 28, 2007

Almost all states allow "Student choice" in terms of claiming residency for voting.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:51 PM, December 28, 2007

"where "at large" Senatorial district guarantees that 6 leftists will be elected each year "

You should look at the vote totals for each town. The vote totals do not support your claim. Milton and Williston are the only towns with any type of republican dominance. But even in those towns, the lead is held my such a small margin that redistricting these towns with any other town(s) would negate the outcomes. In Williston, Ginny Lyons won the most votes, but she was followed by two republicans. Carroll Towne won Milton, but received little for votes outside of her own town.

Even combining results for Williston and Milton, you end up with Diane Snelling followed by two democrats.

What is clear from the town vote totals is that Chittenden county towns are strongly democrat. This is true even in towns where there would not be a student voter population.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:08 PM, December 28, 2007

Pure speculation. If this was the case why continue this Chicago-type corrupt election system? All I hear from Vermont liberals is how Bush "stole" this or that election when the most corrupt system I have seen is right here in Chittenden County! How hypocritical!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:24 PM, December 28, 2007

Bubba -- hate to burst your bubble, but the election of Chittenden State Senators is still done by the people! And it still comes down to the people on the ballot.

Let's look at their backgrounds:

Sen Jim Condos -
Graduated from SBHS & UVM
S. Burlington Zoning Board
S.Burl. City Council Chair
CC Regional Planning Board
CC Metropolitan Planning Board
CCTA Board
Vt League of Cities/Towns Board
National League of Cities Board
Vt Senate - 4 terms

Sen Ed Flanagan -
Graduated from Univ Penn &
Harvard Law
Worked for Sen Geo Aiken in DC
US Dept of Justice
Policy Analyst for US Health
Education & Welfare
Vt State Auditor
Vt Senate - 2 terms

Sen Ginny Lyons -
Graduated Drew Univ, Rutgers,
and UVM
Trinity College Professor
WIlliston Selectboard Chair
CC Regional Planning Board Alt
Vt Lake Champlain Advisory Comm.
Vt Senate - 4 Terms

Sen Hinda Miller -
Graduated Parson's School of
Design & NYU
Lake Chamber of Commerce Chair
Burlington Airport Commissioner
Grn Mtn Coffee Roasters Board
New England Culinary Board
Vt Youth Orchestra Board
Co-Founder of Jogbra - creating
100s of jobs
Vt Senate - 3 terms

Sen Doug Racine -
Graduated from BHS & Princeton
Vt Senate - 6 terms
Vt Lt. Governor - 3 terms
VP Willie Racine's Jeep
Mt Mansfield Union School Board

Sen Diane Snelling -
Graduated CVU,
Harvard/Radcliffe, & NYU
Hinesburg Planning Commission
Hinesburg Selectboard - 2 terms
GBIC Board
Snelling Center Board
Vt Senate - 3 terms

Wow, that's a pretty experienced group of people devoting their time to their constituents.

They may be left of center but the people did elect them.

To call them crooked and corrupt (without any FACTS) for having strong backgrounds is not only mean spirited but just shows that you are extremely partisan.

You know, my dad always said, Reasonable people can and will disagree, but that does not make them bad!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:25 PM, December 28, 2007

Bubba never let facts in his way when he demeans or craps on people.

He always spouts facts, but never has any!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:26 PM, December 28, 2007

There's another problem with the Chittenden Senate district - it violates the one-person one-vote rule for legislative districting.

A voter in Grand Isle County, Orange County, or Lamoille County can vote for only one state senator. A voter in Chittenden County (except for Colchester) can vote for six state senators. Why should the individual in Burlington or Williston have six times the influence over the Vermont Senate as the voter in Williamstown or Morristown?

Arguably, every one of the multi-member state legislative districts in Vermont violates one-person one-vote, but the Chittenden Senate district is the most egregious violation.

In the bad old days of segregation, the old-time Southern Democrats used multi-member state legislative districts to prevent African-American candidates from being elected to state legislatures in the South. A combination of federal court rulings and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 led to the south's abandoning multi-member districts and African-Americans having influence over state legislatures that reflected their share of the voting population.

It's ironic that Vermont Democrats now use some of the same arguments as the old-time Democrats in Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia to defend the six-member Chittenden Senate district.

The Chittenden district is the largest multi-member state legislative district in the nation.

If the six-member Chittenden District remains in place when the legislature redistricts itself after the 2010 census, someone should file a lawsuit in federal court challenging that district as violating the U.S. Constitution.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:21 PM, December 28, 2007

You think that 35 people having the same representation as 35,000 is fairer?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:43 PM, December 28, 2007

bubba said...

"The big story should be the continuing deterioration of Vermont, a story that really started in the 70's with the arrival of the first new settlers in....yada, yada, yada."

Nice try, nitwit.

In other words, bubbles got bupkis.

Mississippi beckons, bubbles. I hear good things. It's an ignorant, ill-informed, clueless-cracker, brain-dead bushleaguer land of opportunity, bubbles.

You and the little fellas will be right at home there.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 3:44 PM, December 28, 2007

This comment has been removed by the author.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 3:44 PM, December 28, 2007

Note that the senators come from Hinesburg, South Burlington, Williston, Burlington, and Richmond--a good representation of the communities in Chittenden County; and they come from a variety of backgrounds, including three from the business community, one from a legal background, one from education etc.
All are well educated, well qualified and have a history of service to the community--many on county level boards.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:52 PM, December 28, 2007

No wonder bubbles hates 'em.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 4:01 PM, December 28, 2007

"Pure speculation."

No, the facts are the facts. I looked at the vote totals and they just don't support your argument.

Conservatives lost in every town except Milton and even in Milton the Democrat showing was strong.

It is not the case that Burlington numbers are so significant that they wipe out any republican leads. What is the case, is that the Burlington totals just make democrats lead by greater margins.

There is a bill to break the 6 into two groups of three, but even then you will find that the republicans, and particularly conservative republicans, just don't have the votes.

A quick google shows that a lawsuit would likey be a waste of time. The court has already made statements that a multi-member district could only be considered "an invidious discrimination" if it "operate (s) to minimize or cancel out the voting strength of racial or political elements of the voting population.” "

The vote totals from the towns don't show that the district operates in opposition to racial or political elements.

If every town, except one smallish one, elects a democrat how do you show that the district operates to minimize or cancel out the voting strength of racial or political elements of the voting population?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:22 PM, December 28, 2007

Yeah, then look at the candidates the GOP has put forth and its easy to see why these people have won.

They have good credentials and experience.

I'm sure Bubba would also like to elect judges like most of the south does - make the judiciary political. Let judges go out and fundraise their campaigns - oops, they will probably go right to teh lawyers who come before them.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:24 PM, December 28, 2007

bubba said...

"And now, the dims/progs have created one of the three most crooked voting districts in the U.S. in Chittenden County,...."

And your proof of this is....?

"Sounds a little bit like the left's favorite country du jour, Venezuela! Take back Vermont!"

And your proof of that is....?

Good luck, bubbles. You're gonna need it.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 4:55 PM, December 28, 2007

bubba said...

"Pure speculation. If this was the case why continue this Chicago-type corrupt election system?"

Evidence?

Bubbles, your ignorant, ill-informed, factually-challenged gop-slop nonsense doesn't even rise to the level of speculation.

It's just pure unadulterated horsebrithume.

"All I hear from Vermont liberals is how Bush "stole" this or that election when the most corrupt system I have seen is right here in Chittenden County! How hypocritical!"

Nice try. And your proof of this is....?

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 5:01 PM, December 28, 2007

Note: I never criticized the 6 Chittenden Senators, only the corrupt way they get in.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:13 PM, December 28, 2007

Bubba, the 6-member at large state senatorial district is unjust and needs to be fixed.

But that does not make it "corrupt."

Your undisciplined use of adjectives needs to be reformed as much as the unjust at-large district does.

And the same goes for Mr. Coop.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:02 PM, December 28, 2007

"Chicago type election system" doesn't suggest personal corruption
as well as Precinct corruption???

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:40 PM, December 28, 2007

As the state's largest city, Burlington would get more representation in a true one man, one vote system. As it is, only two of the six live in Burlington and strictly speaking represent it.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:44 PM, December 28, 2007

Anonymous said...

"Bubba, the 6-member at large state senatorial district is unjust and needs to be fixed."

And just how and when did you establish this assertion of yours, little fella?

"But that does not make it "corrupt."

"Your undisciplined use of adjectives needs to be reformed as much as the unjust at-large district does."

Really? I repeat, just how and when did you establish this little assertion of yours as fact, little fella?

"And the same goes for Mr. Coop."

Is that so, little fella. And just when did your ignorant, ill-informed brain-dead opinions come to constitute evidence?

That's what I thought.

Take a look at this thread, little fella. Apart from confirming bubble's obvious ignorance and inability to substantiate his bogus claims a time or two, precisely when did I specifically weigh in on the issue of Chittenden Country Legislative Representation?

Moreover, precisely when did it come to pass that your ignorant, ill-informed, unsubstantiated and unsupportable opinions come to constitute evidence, little fella?

Take your time. There's no rush. You're not going anywhere.

You've no more established that "the 6-member at large state senatorial district is unjust and needs to be fixed." than bubbles has established that it's corrupt, little fella.

You're just an anonymous nitwit makin' claims you can't substantiate passin' gas on a BFP political blog message board who's a hell of a lot more likely to blame it another anonymous poster than you are to make a point, little fella.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 9:08 PM, December 28, 2007

Ah, as usual jw uses his space on this blog to inform, educate, and add constructive criticism in an uplifting way.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:16 PM, December 28, 2007

"Take a look at this thread, little fella. Apart from confirming bubble's obvious ignorance and inability to substantiate his bogus claims a time or two, precisely when did I specifically weigh in on the issue of Chittenden Country Legislative Representation?"

Guess your readin' comprehension aint so good. I didn't say that you had offered an opinion on the Chittenden County Senatorial District (although, by lambasting everyone else's opinion on the subject, in effect, you have).

What I SAID was (now read this part s-l-o-w-l-y, jw) that "your undisciplined use of adjectives needs to be reformed . . ."

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:21 PM, December 28, 2007

Anonymous said...

"Take a look at this thread, little fella."

Apart from confirming bubble's obvious ignorance and inability to substantiate his bogus claims a time or two, precisely when did I specifically weigh in on the issue of Chittenden Country Legislative Representation?"

"Guess your readin' comprehension aint so good. I didn't say that you had offered an opinion on the Chittenden County Senatorial District (although, by lambasting everyone else's opinion on the subject, in effect, you have)."

I did, eh? Nice try. There's jut no end to the number of things you can't prove, little fella.

"What I SAID was (now read this part s-l-o-w-l-y, jw) that "your undisciplined use of adjectives needs to be reformed."

Really? And just how, where and when did you establish that, little fella?

You haven't proved that any more than you've proved "the 6-member at large state senatorial district is unjust and needs to be fixed."

Once again, your ignorant, ill-informed opinions aren't evidence, little fella. They're merely your ignorant, ill-informed opinions.

You can spew 'em all you want. They'll always be nothin' more than your ignorant, ill-informed opinions.

Let's do lunch.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:28 PM, December 28, 2007

I wouldn't eat out of the same trough as you.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:08 AM, December 29, 2007

Attention Vermont liberals: as long as the Chittenden-6 are put into office in the current manner, as opposed to the normal one-man-one-vote way, please refrain from criticizing election results anywhere else. It makes you look hypocritical. And by the way, it appears one of your own (jw) really needs psychiatric care. Has Waterbury no beds? (Or are they always "full" when he's brought in?)

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:10 AM, December 29, 2007

Anonymous said...

"I wouldn't eat out of the same trough as you."

What a sweet, substantive, sober and serious thing to say, little fella.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:44 AM, December 29, 2007

bubba said...

"Attention Vermont liberals: as long as the Chittenden-6 are put into office in the current manner, as opposed to the normal one-man-one-vote way, please refrain from criticizing election results anywhere else. It makes you look hypocritical. And by the way, it appears one of your own (jw) really needs psychiatric care. Has Waterbury no beds? (Or are they always "full" when he's brought in?)"

In other words, bubbles got bupkis.

Once again, bubbles, apart from demonstrating that your lunatic-fringe credentials are as impeccable as ever, the only thing you're able to prove is your total inability to prove or substantiate anything you say.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 7:50 AM, December 29, 2007

Bubba,

Are you saying that the only good senate district is one person-one vote meaning 1 senator per district?

If that's the case, then Vt has only 2 "legally" voted senators -- Orange County, Lamoille County!

So, according to Bubba, that must mean the other 28 senators are corrupt!

Oh and by the way, to do what Bubba wants - 1 senator per district - may need a constitutional amendment.

And if you did have 1 senator per district - what would be the difference between the house and Senate?

Just that the senate districts would include 20,000 people vs House 4000.

The reason it is the way it is is for the House members to be more parochial while the Senate looks at things more global or statewide.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:46 PM, December 29, 2007

Vermont needs new leadership in the house.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:04 PM, December 29, 2007

And Senate.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:26 AM, December 30, 2007

" as long as the Chittenden-6 are put into office in the current manner, as opposed to the normal one-man-one-vote way, "

What "normal" one-man-one-vote way?

What about the 42 multi-member house districts? Nevermind the other multi-member senate districts.

Just own up to the fact that you hate that Chittenden County elects democrats and you're are looking for any way possible to change that.

Also, what of Diane Snelling? The simple fact that she was elected and had fairly good showing in all towns, proves that there is no political bias.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:18 AM, December 30, 2007

No, I just have to laugh at the hypocritical liberals that think the single-district at-large Senators in Chittenden County are elected "fairly" but whine about voter I.D. laws in Georgia and elsewhere that prevent fraud. If Alabama or Georgia decided to implement one big single-district at-large voting system for state-wide offices, I can just picture the line of left-wing "Vermont" activists heading south in their Volvos ready to "play dead" and other idiotic protest games, like they do at Fort Benning every year! And of course, phony Leahy and Sanders would be wringing their hands in the Senate, demanding action against these states! What a bunch of phonies!!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:38 AM, December 30, 2007

bubba said...

"No, I just have to laugh at the hypocritical liberals that think the single-district at-large Senators in Chittenden County are elected "fairly" but whine about voter I.D. laws in Georgia and elsewhere that prevent fraud."

In other words, bubbles, having no case, no clue and no answers to support his most recent ridiculous contention that Chittenden County State Senators are the beneficiaries of what he alleges to be "unfair" election practices, so he's ham-handedly trying to change the subject and desperately construct a bogus strawman argument based entirely on his completely unfounded speculation.

In other words, his usual factually-challenged, evidence-free and foundationless song and dance.

Bubbles, if you and your little legion of loons are the voice of "Real Vermonters", how come Leahy, Sanders, Jeffords before him and Welch keep getting elected and reelected over and over again?

That's what I thought.

Once again, as was the case when I first began posting here some 6 weeks ago, bubbles, you and your anonymous little legion of loons continue to demonstrate nothing but your well-established collective inability to substantiate, support or prove a damned thing you say.

Always a pleasure.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 1:03 PM, December 30, 2007

The three stooges keep getting elected because what you call "real Vermonters" are admittedly outnumbered by 30 years or so of unlimited regressive immigration by undocumented flatlander idiots. They are also aided by the fact that so many remaining Vermonters fail to vote, for what reasons I am not sure, but suspect the long winters may be resulting in wholesale inbreeding, rendering many of them functional liberals.As for Jeffords, I never recall him as being much more than a milktoast follower of any party that might pay attention to him for more than a few minutes. TAKE BACK VERMONT!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:38 PM, December 30, 2007

"how come Leahy, Sanders, Jeffords before him and Welch keep getting elected and reelected over and over again?"

Fair point. Although Jeffords was a Republican for his entire career, and Welch hasn't been re=elected yet.

By the same token, howcome Douglas and Dubie keep getting reelected over and over again?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:09 PM, December 30, 2007

Yes, I was actually there when he made his announcement.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:37 PM, December 30, 2007

There is a really sane Democrat in Vermont! No one would know it.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:59 PM, December 30, 2007

"I've been here 35 years!" In your pointy-headed, drug-addled little way, you have pointed out in ONE SENTENCE what is wrong with Vermont, and why it NEEDS TO BE TAKEN BACK!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:55 AM, December 31, 2007

Take Back Vermont! Dump Douglas!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:29 AM, December 31, 2007

bubba said...

"I've been here 35 years!" In your pointy-headed, drug-addled little way, you have pointed out in ONE SENTENCE what is wrong with Vermont, and why it NEEDS TO BE TAKEN BACK!"

Yeah, knuckle-draggin' nitwits like you still haven't relocated to Mississippi.

Good luck with that whole take back thing, bubbles. It's not yours to take.

Dismissed.

# Posted by:

JWCoop10 | 11:48 AM, December 31, 2007

39 votes
WOW that is impressive
must be some viewers voted more thatn once :)

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:58 PM, January 03, 2008