vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

10.09.2007

On tour

House Speaker Gaye Symington doesn't send out statements after every road trip she takes around the state (a recent visit to Vermont Yankee produced no statements, for example), but she sent this one today after visiting St. Johnsbury Academy.

"Today I visited St. Johnsbury Academy, where the juniors are taking the
New England Common Assessment Program exams over the course of three days. So are other juniors and students in third through eighth grade throughout the
state. The NECAP test is taken by students in several New England states (NH, RI
and VT) and the results become part of the picture in assessing the outcomes of
our schools.

"Tests disrupt the regular school day as they require time for
preparation and administering the tests. And they require students to attempt to
do their best on a test that, as my own eleventh grade daughter reminded me
yesterday, doesn't really impact them individually. I'd like to thank Vermont
students and teachers who are engaged in taking these tests.

"Time and again, the performance of our schools ranks among the highest
in the nation. Vermont recently received the results of the National Assessment
of Educational Progress, which showed that Vermont's students not only performed
better than the national average on the NAEP test, they also increased their
previous, above-average scores in 3 out of 4 area/grade level combinations.

"It is important to keep in mind these outcomes as we
discuss how to contain school costs in Vermont. Clearly our system, in which local voters have control over the choices we make to improve our schools, has paid off when it comes to the outcomes we consistently see from our kids and their schools. While we need to continue to look for ways to contain costs, particularly health care
and energy costs, we should all appreciate the tremendous work that our
students, educators, and school boards are doing to make our schools some of the
best in the nation."

What do you make of it?

- Terri Hallenbeck

posted by vt.Buzz | 5:43 PM |

Comments:

Note that she was talking at a PRIVATE school.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:28 AM, October 10, 2007

There is no such thing as local control when it comes to schools.
The federal government dictates what they must do and the teachers union dictates what the teachers won't do.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:07 AM, October 10, 2007

Being tops in the nation in education is like having the best cabin on the Titanic. Today's Vermont Tiger blog disputes that Vermont is doing all that well.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:25 AM, October 10, 2007

A few observations/questions.

1. As the first comment noted, Gaye was speaking at a private academy. There are a few of these public/private academies in the state. On average, these private academies perform better than our public schools. Why do our newspapers not look into this important question?

2. As another comment noted above, it is pure folly to claim that Vermont is at the top of class with regard to education performance. The charactaristics of our state dictate that our students are predisposed to performing better. These charactaristics include higher levels of education amongst the parents of Vermont school-children, lower poverty levels, no inner cities, virtually no socio-economically disadvantaged populations (e.g. blacks, hispanics, etc.)... the list goes on and on. National statistics are skewed by large sample datasets from areas of the country where children are just not given a fair chance. To compare Vermont with those areas is just plain wrong. The real question is what VALUE do our schools add, over and above a level of performance that should be expected from a community? The next question is whether that added value justifies our level of investment in public schools.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:07 AM, October 10, 2007

Close Bellows Falls Union High School - it has failed.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:09 AM, October 10, 2007

Joel Cook won't let you close a failing school.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:54 PM, October 10, 2007

An interesting report on Vermont's test scores - check it out...
www.vermonttiger.com/content/2007/10/the-real-story-.html

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:28 PM, October 10, 2007

Sorry, I don't read trash.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:06 PM, October 10, 2007

Then why do you spend so much time reading John Odumb at Green Mountain Daily?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:49 PM, October 10, 2007

"Gaye was speaking at a private academy. There are a few of these public/private academies in the state. On average, these private academies perform better than our public schools. Why do our newspapers not look into this important question?"

Please keep in mind that these private schools boot out a lot of students and that many students "quit".)Private schools do not have to play by the same rules as public schools.) This leaves the cream of the crop, so to speak.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:28 PM, October 10, 2007

I don't read GMD either. I just read your idiotic blather.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:03 PM, October 10, 2007

"The real question is what VALUE do our schools add, over and above a level of performance that should be expected from a community..."

Thank you! That is exactly the point. Time and again we pay premium costs to the rest of the country for public services that are at best average and often substandard. It covers the gambit from education to state infrastructure.

As a state, why do we rationalize and defend it so adamantly? It is okay to expect a fair value for the money we pay. The whole New England work ethic is based on the concept of "a fair day's work for a fair day's pay". As a state we seem to have given that up.

Great leaders acknowledge the issues and face them. Ours seem to rationalize them with poorly constructed data points. We live in a beautiful state. Why do we allow it to be placed at risk by our legislature's leaders who are unable to take us to the future?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:24 PM, October 10, 2007

Vermont Tiger isn't trash. It's thoughtful commentary by some of the states' best thinkers. You don't have to agree with it, but calling it trash is harsh. Besides, if any of the conservative bloggers says anything really stupid, then George Cross is there to correct him!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:42 PM, October 10, 2007

Nope. It's just trash.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:43 PM, October 10, 2007

"Please keep in mind that these private schools boot out a lot of students and that many students "quit".)Private schools do not have to play by the same rules as public schools.) This leaves the cream of the crop, so to speak."

Do you even know what you're talking about?

Public/private schools like Burr & Burton and St. J Academy are not selective in their enrollment from towns that have designated them as their "public" school. They take 'em all.

The difference is that they do a better job than most public schools.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:54 PM, October 10, 2007

St. Johnsbury does not take em all. They have selective enrollment. They've sued for that right.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:49 PM, October 10, 2007

That may be the case for students in towns outside St. Johnsbury, but otherwise, you're wrong. I went to school there, not in New Jersey or whatever flat-landed place you came from.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:38 PM, October 10, 2007

There are many students that St. Jay Academy and Lyndon Institute do not want. They don't cherrypick up-front necessarily, they get rid of them after they get paid the tuition, which is coming up soon. Alternative schools will get new students before Thanksgiving because of this. Happens every year and is no big secret. Now they don't have to claim "drop-outs" as drop-outs if the students go to Adult Basic Ed (NEKLS) for education. (The legislature did this a few years ago.)Everybody wins except the students...

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 6:43 AM, October 11, 2007

Sorry, I went to St. Johnsbury Academy too.

I was there when they sued for the right to deny entry to a student with special needs.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:02 AM, October 11, 2007

And I was there when they won that case and proceded to deny that student admission to the Academy.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:03 AM, October 11, 2007

Lets face it - private schools do a better job! Vermont Academy is
awesome! I am so glad I left public school.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:07 AM, October 11, 2007

I think there is really not much wrong with public schools.

It's the parents, not the schools. What can a school do when the parents set the ambitionless example and complain when the schools attempt to make the kid work?

If your parents allow you to have "days off", complain to the school when you get homework, and let you skip an entire week during deer season, what can you expect?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:05 PM, October 11, 2007

You get a kid that should not be in a school which is teaching to the test and has curriculum that is directed at college bound students - we have really lost our way in "educating" students!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:17 PM, October 11, 2007

That's why these slacker kids take one class per year in their final years in high school and are placed into the workforce for the remainder of their day under the pretense that its a learning experience.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:52 PM, October 11, 2007

"Nope. It's just trash."

That's not very open-minded of you. Even though I share the views more of Vermont Tiger, I still check out Freyne Land and Vermont Daily Briefing regularly. Once in a while, I actually learn something from them too.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:24 PM, October 11, 2007

Yeah, work/study's a joke. Some kids sign up to work at places they've been working at all summer anyway.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:25 PM, October 11, 2007

Building a good work history is often the best thing. Not everyone is cut out for bookwork. Hands on work, real life skill-building, makes more sense than having them fail in classes that are meaningless to them. I fully support learning that take place in the workplace. Better than having the students drop out and hang out on the streets.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:07 PM, October 11, 2007

What a crock. We give in to the kids all the time. The classes are meaningless to them? How about making them meaningful instead of not providing them at all? By making it impossible to fail we have made whole schools meaningless.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:18 PM, October 11, 2007

Impossible to fail?? Clearly you don't spend any time with those that our schools have failed. Kids are flunking out all over the place. We call that dropping out.
We blame them. Then we throw money at job training programs and workforce training and wonder why nobody signs up. Throw aways don't come back for more.
"What a crock" is right...

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:36 PM, October 11, 2007

Well we make it easy as heck for the kids. If they drop out, then what's the answer -- make it EASIER?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:44 PM, October 11, 2007

The dropouts are the extreme. Workplace learning seems fine, but then we have students in those programs who have terrible language skills and can't even do the basic math that would be required for them to have growth in their career.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:57 PM, October 11, 2007

And where are the parents of these kids?

The kids have lousy language skills and the parents alow them to skip 12th grade?

There is only so much a school can do. The parents need to step up.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:22 PM, October 11, 2007

For what we pay in taxes we sure don't get quality schools.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:19 PM, October 11, 2007

It must suck being republican. All they do is complain.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:33 PM, October 12, 2007

Are you kidding? All Symington, Shumlin, and Carleton do is complain. "The Governor won't do what we want. Waaaaaaaaah." Complaining is an equal opportunity affliction that applies to both Republicans and Dems in VT.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 4:05 PM, October 12, 2007

are you sure?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:37 PM, October 15, 2007

Yep.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:41 PM, October 16, 2007

Symington has got to go!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:46 AM, October 18, 2007

good luck with that