vt.Buzz ~ a political blog

Political notes from Free Press staff writers Terri Hallenbeck, Sam Hemingway and Nancy Remsen

12.21.2006

Prog debate in the hallway

Tom Salmon, having just been declared the winner of the state auditor's race, was standing outside the Washington County courtroon, talking to Martha Abbott, the Progressive Party candidate in the race.

Abbott was explaining to Salmon how she believed that her presence in the race helped Salmon by stimulating interest in the campaign, thus allowing Salmon to defeat incumbent Republican Randy Brock. That is, more people paid attention to the auditor's campaign and voted because there were two of them out there drumming up interest.

She seemed to be waiting for a nod of agreement from Salmon on this, but it was not forthcoming.

The way Salmon saw it, having a Prog in the race meant the two of them shared votes on the left side of the political spectrum. That is, people who voted for Abbott would have voted for him if she had not been in the race.

Thus summarizes the debate between Dems and Progs every election cycle. Progs believe no one "steals" votes from anyone else. Dems disagree.

By the way, if you want to pore over recount results and compare them to Election Day results, the Secretary of State's Web site has the numbers posted, not counting the handful that were added in during Thursday's court hearing. It's HERE.

- Terri Hallenbeck

posted by vt.Buzz | 2:25 PM |

Comments:

Did Martha hurt her arm? Patting herself on the back like that?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:42 PM, December 21, 2006

Prog logic:

"I'm ran against you and didn't want you to win. I hate everything you Democrats stand for. Now why aren't you THANKING me for all of my great work and helping you win??"

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:45 PM, December 21, 2006

I'm not sure I'd go as far as Abbott, but I heard a little bit from her during the campaign and really nothing from the other two. Was that just me?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:17 PM, December 21, 2006

Abbott ran a good campaign -- but she came in THIRD !!!!

But she has no business taking credit for Salmon's victory -- afterall, she did everything in her power to defeat him !!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:48 PM, December 21, 2006

Progressive sour grapes. Gotta love it !!

Martha came in THIRD. She ran AGAINST Salmon. She didn't help him. She opposed him.

To say otherwise is just the stupidest kind of spin.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:55 PM, December 21, 2006

I agree that Martha took more votes from Salmon that she did from Brock. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

Note: Progs and Republicans have a lot in common and should learn to talk more with one another.Don't fall into old beliefs.

However, (and despite of the fact that Salmon is a good and able guy) Brock should have won this race. He is the more able of the two (look at pure resume) when it comes to being a state auditor.

2006 just wasn't going to be the Republicans year (Douglas aside). Yes, I concede that Salmon ran a better race than Brock, but not so much better that he should have won against a much stronger candidate.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:53 PM, December 21, 2006

The previous message was copied, word for word, from Hillary Rodham Clinton's website.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 8:41 AM, December 22, 2006

The party of privileged white males with name recognition (the Vermont Democrats) successfully defeated both African-American and female candidates this year. Rejoice!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:49 AM, December 22, 2006

Sorry, I don't vote according to skin color or gender.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:44 AM, December 22, 2006

"Either way, to believe in Salmon's (& Dems) mindset would be to agree that 100% of Martha's votes would have gone to Salmon had she not been in the race"

Probably not, but certainly a few hundred more would have gone his way than to Brock - making the recount unnecessary. Progs can whine about IRV and the downside of two party dominance all they want, but the reality is that they absolutely have played the spoiler in some VT races.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:53 AM, December 22, 2006

"The party of privileged white males with name recognition (the Vermont Democrats)"

Someone needs to tell this to Gaye Symington and Carolyn Partridge. Apparently they didn't get the memo !!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:58 AM, December 22, 2006

yea, Susan Bartlett is going to be amazed when she finds out.

Imagine the white man party making a WOMAN the chair of the aprops committee for the past dozen years.

Oh God ... did anyone tell Governor Kunin yet? Perhaps we should send Francis Brooks to break the news ...

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:04 AM, December 22, 2006

Those who nay-say Martha are missing the whole point of a third party. It's not to build themselves into being just another party with the same politics as the parties they criticize. No, it is for a nobler end, to bring sigificant progressive issues to the table that the other two parties want to duck.

In the case of the Auditor's race, those issues were uh...wait, what were they?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:57 AM, December 22, 2006

Ah yes, the Prog's are more noble. They don't play the petty political games. They are high and mighty. Can't be compromised ...

If you believe that (and most Vermonters DON'T, as we can see by the poll numbers) then I have some land to sell you under Franklin Pond.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:01 PM, December 22, 2006

As I have always said, "Four score and seven years ago..."

Just kidding.

Look, 3rd parties are a great thing. We should have 4th and 5th parties as well. The two party system is broken.

And, lest any of you think that my "leans slightly right" personality is happy about the spoiler that the Progs play in VT, there is a very real chance that my main man McCain is seriously screwed over by Mayor Blooburg hopping into the Presidential race in a year.

PS, Republicans are Jesus's choosen warriors. Democrats are TrustAfarians who live in places like Brattleboro and trace their VT roots back to the Ben and Jerry migration of the late 70s.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:07 PM, December 22, 2006

Remind me, why are 3rd parties great things? And can any of those qualities honestly be applicable to the Progressive Party of Vermont in 2006?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:30 PM, December 22, 2006

"Salmon won for no other reason then daddy's coattails."

Few voters even remember who Tom's daddy is. That argument is just silly. A pol who has been out of office for 30 years has no coat tails.

"Dems act like Salmon deserved to win presumably thanks to his witty campaign

Nope. Dems are actually pissed that Tommy ran such a poor campaign. We act like Tom deserved to win because he got the most votes. Period.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 1:02 PM, December 22, 2006

Martha is part of that mentality that attacks Democrats left and right for everything. She ran against Salmon and Brock and she failed. I think she ran a good campaign, don't get me wrong, but her hatred for Democrats is perplexing. She hates them so much, I have heard what she has said about them. Considering the fact that Democrats passed Civil Unions (Abbot is gay) you would think that she would be a little better towards them considering the Dems and a smattering of Rs made our state more civil.

Abbott needs to pull her head out of the magic hat that she calls the Progressive Party and stop thinking that they are so pure. She came in third, a distant third at that and had she not been in the race, we would not have had a recount that cost our state thousands of dollars.

Thanks Martha for costing me money. You're a doll.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 3:52 PM, December 22, 2006

Name one voter who voted for Tom Salmon in 06 because his daddy was Governor 30 years ago.
Articles about the family tree don't translate into votes. Few voters remember Governor Salmon.

I agree with your other point (directly above). Martha had every right to run. She ran a good campaign. It's silly to say that her run wasted taxpayer dollars.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 7:09 PM, December 22, 2006

"Progs can whine about IRV and the downside of two party dominance all they want...
From where I sit, the only ones whining are Democrats when a Progressive enters 'their' race."

Really?

"Hey Dems, want to continue losing statewide elections... If so, then do nothing and blow off IRV as you've done to date... get this IRV legislation passed once and for all."

"'There is a lot of evidence to show that Pollina can't win statewide in Vermont.'
...IRV will give you the best evidence you want if you think Vermonters deserve free will with their votes."

"The 2 majors stack the FEC with their cronies who have effectively shut all alternative voices from debates over the public's airwaves."

Sound familiar, GTB?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 10:46 PM, December 22, 2006

"'had she not been in the race, we would not have had a recount that cost our state thousands of dollars'

All I can summize from this is that you hate our Constitution."

Wow, it takes a lot of "hootzpah" for a de facto Progressive Party spokeman to make a statement that idiotic in a public forum.

There's no question that an expensive recount would not have happened if Abbott hadn't run. If Brock had won by 137 votes, there's no question that it would have been because of her. Doesn't mean anyone who points that out hates the system that allows her to run, it's a simple statement of fact; and when someone points it out and expresses annoyance at her decision for those reasons, especially when she never had any hope of winning, there's really not a whole lot more to "summize."

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 11:08 PM, December 22, 2006

Salmon did not have support where
he should have and di have support where he houldn' have. Vermonters are very independent. Abbot has positions which would be wisely directed at the Secretary of State.
I hope she takes it to her!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:39 AM, December 23, 2006

Martha Abbott should run for Governor - what is she aiting for?

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 12:44 AM, December 23, 2006

I voted for Martha. I should have voted Brock. Mine was one vote Martha cost Randy, not Tom.

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 5:11 PM, December 24, 2006

Oh, please. Martha was the Progs' sacrificial lamb for this election. It allowed Pollina to lay low for one more cycle in hopes of rebuilding his statewide bona fides so he can run again and get another Republican elected to yet another statewide office.

Martha's comments to Salmon are just the usual Prog repackaging of the facts to fit their delusional belief that they can get more Vermonters to drink the kool-aid and build their increasingly irrelevant party. They actually believe that they can grow the party through ideological purity, rather than by building a bigger tent. They will continue to fail at it, and continue to insist that their special purity is just the thing for the Democrats. Soon, the Progs will go the way of Liberty Union. Then, no doubt, we'll get the Greens. Leftist fundamentalists will always be with us in Vermont. We need IRV so they can truly experience their irrelevance.

Green Mountain Boy

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 2:37 PM, December 25, 2006

The Progs are truly delusional!!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:49 PM, January 01, 2007

Martha Abbott for Governor!!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:50 PM, January 01, 2007

Progs most definetly play the "petty party games"!

# Posted by:

Anonymous | 9:52 PM, January 01, 2007